CAP Discussion

@MKslayer: I think that Cotnoir looks interesting, to say the least.  It has a unique typing that hasn't been implemented yet (but certainly thought of among the people here before now), and it has some unique moves. 

I have some concerns about it though.  Just looking at it normally, I would say that it isn't broken or anything like that.  Personally, I'm a little concerned about the 'uniqueness' factor here.  It has Transform and Illusion, two abilities that are really exclusive in the current metagame.  I'm all for giving different Pokémon Transform and Illusion, but I just don't want those abilities to become too widespread.  Also, as Invalid said earlier about one of my CAPs, we don't want to make 'Bettermons', or Pokémon that plainly outclass another commonly used Pokémon.  In this case, I feel that Cotnoir outclasses Zoroark in many areas; Cotnoir has better speed, better overall defenses, and a better overall typing than Zoroark does. 

What I would recommend is to change some of Cotnoir's characteristics so that it is different from Zoroark in some ways.  The possible Illusion / Transform change is optional.

If you don't agree with what I said, please let me know.  Don't change this stuff just because I said so; talk to people about what they think as well.

We've been over the Zoroark thing and its move pool was changed accordingly, it doesn't have Fighting Dark coverage, the most important thing about Zoroark really.

Also, Transform isn't an ability. Transform has been yet to be combined with several abilities, the first of which we broke the barrier on was Prankster. This thing isn't even going to want to use transform, it's a flavor move. And the flavor fits perfectly if you compare it with the description.

To add to what Invalid said, Zoroark still has a niche. This Pokemon lacks Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, which makes Zoroark better as a set-up sweeper, in addition to Zoroark's better coverage. 

And don't get started on Transform. We already have a viable Transform user with a crazy useful ability for it. You might not be familiar with Thramo, but one of our valued auth members already decided to see how far he could push Transform's usability. Illusion + Transform is no more odd than Pressure + Transform, Flash Fire + Transform, or Shell Armor + Transform.

i think having another Illusion user is great tbh and having Transform just makes it more unique. Before this the only CAP to get Illusion was Inflect and now with Catnoir getting it it really is gonna be hard predictions on who it is now. I think it doesn't outclass zoroark at all, i think Zoroark outclasses it because zoroark gets Physical moves and as stated before it gets the Dark Fight coverage which Catnoir doesn't get and therefore leaves it open to being walled a lot by both steel and dark types.

Invalid wrote:

We've been over the Zoroark thing and its move pool was changed accordingly, it doesn't have Fighting Dark coverage, the most important thing about Zoroark really.

That's fine then; that's the main thing I was concerned with here.  Cotnoir does seem to outclass Zoroark in many areas, but that is a major difference, as HP Fighting won't always cut it.

Kingtrace wrote:

And don't get started on Transform. We already have a viable Transform user with a crazy useful ability for it. You might not be familiar with Thramo, but one of our valued auth members already decided to see how far he could push Transform's usability. Illusion + Transform is no more odd than Pressure + Transform, Flash Fire + Transform, or Shell Armor + Transform.

Really...I haven't heard about Thramo until now. Anyway, I didn't quite know how far we were going to use 'unique attributes' like Transform and Illusion. In this case, its fine though. I'm not too thrilled with having too many Illusion users, but that's just my opinion.

Supergassy wrote:

i think having another Illusion user is great tbh and having Transform just makes it more unique. Before this the only CAP to get Illusion was Inflect and now with Catnoir getting it it really is gonna be hard predictions on who it is now. I think it doesn't outclass zoroark at all, i think Zoroark outclasses it because zoroark gets Physical moves and as stated before it gets the Dark Fight coverage which Catnoir doesn't get and therefore leaves it open to being walled a lot by both steel and dark types

I think that Cotnoir has a lot to offer over Zororark. In terms of stats, Cotnoir overall is better than Zoroark, minus the physical attack stat of course. Speaking of Zoroark's attack stat, It really doesn't have the best physical movepool. It gets Sucker Punch, Night Slash, Low Kick, Low Sweep, and U-Turn as its main physical options. Zoroark could function as a decent mixed attacker, but its physical attack stat is only 105 after all. Also, Cotnoir gets stabbed Psyshock, so it won't get walled by dedicated special walls like Blissey that much. Cotnoir may not completely outclass Zoroark, but it comes close to doing that, in my opinion.

But see thats the thing, Zoroark has the option of running a mixed moveset with sucker punch and u-turn, also it gets that fight type move coverage which cotnoir will only get with hidden power most likely but without that its easily walled by say... Bisharp for one example even ferro and forretress and scizor all counter it. Sure "omg Dark type with Illusion it must be zoroark" but zoroark is honestly better in every aspect and even if it resembles zoroark its not even as strong or gets such a varied movepool as zoroark who gets Nasty Plot and Swords Dance too where as Cotnoir only gets its Calm Mind i believe. Its just very easily countered and i think sure it can function the same way as zoroark and is faster but its no where near as versatile as a zoroark can be in the same situation.

Spoiler:

can we talk about this cap i made? just need some feedback and maybe a name.

It seems fine to me, competitive-wise.  Its typing combination is unique, it can actually not take too much damage from those floating rocks, and many Pokémon can't take its moves.  I would think that, since it is a large Pokémon, that it would have a slightly higher HP stat.  You see most of the 'big' Pokémon, like Snorlax and Wailord, get a big HP stat.

well then i might drop its speed stat a bit for more hp considering it gets ice shard and mach punch and i may also put in swords dance instead of the bulk up then. but i thought i'd make it have decent speed coupled with the ice body cause a large HP stat with ice body seems a bit much to me and enforces more use for hail.

Too many Illusion caps will make the ability OP.

Atm it's fine, because they all fear bug attacks.

But you still never know head on what you are facing so..

Spoiler:

switched stats around a bit. gave it a higher HP stat, lowered speed and buffed up its defense stat. Calm Mind dropped for Nasty Plot and payback dropped for Stone Edge.

I have a lot of work to do on the server. For now I have no way of working on it and nothing better to do, so I'd like to list the ideas I've been thinking of for my next CAP, one of which I'll flesh out once I get caught up.

A fast sweeper with Analytic for what I like to call psuedo-trapping. As of now the only Pokemon that can be used that way is Starmie, and since Starmie isn't really using what little of that niche it has, I think it would be fine to make something better at the same job.

Gasssy's latest post got me interested in something that would be super good with Avalanche and Revenge. It probably wouldn't be Fighting/Ice though because the coverage is insane enough as is, and I'm thinking of colossal atk with Analytic. Yes, I'm in an Analytic mood.

something not weak to Bug that carries Illusion, to compensate for the very useful niche that would be in this developing metagame it wouldn't be as useful as the rest of the Illusion CAPs.

Something with 90 in everything, considering maybe a fighting arena trap user with very poor set up like work up and agility. There are two reasons Fighting and Arena Trap fit together for me. 1: as a fighting type, it shared the quality of not being able to do much to flying types without additional coverage with Dugtrio and Trapinch. 2: Professional Fighters of all kinds fight in some sort of arena. There are tons of fighting styles not represented by Pokemon yet, the only ones taken up to my knowledge are Boxing, Kick Boxing, and Sumo Wrestling. If I were to make this it's style would probably be Muay Thai due to the emphasis on clinching.

A new Download user. I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable writing things into the Team Plasma lore, so I might make it that a rouge scientist who had defected from Team Plasma after learning how Genesect was made started making his own fossil gene splicing army. it would likely be and reengineered fossil pokemon that already exists. Like how Genesect is an re-engineering to Kabutops if you look closely. I'd justify it's lower BST by saying that the scientist didn't have the resources to incubate something as perfect as Genesect, but he was able to mass produce what he did make. The typing wouldn't be bug steel either. I'm thinking I'd have the scientist be someone who has done the most basic study of type coverage possible and went for a typing that had perfect coverage with STAB, this would be balanced by the need to be mixed in order to use that coverage. Maybe a genetically altered Aerodactyl that is now Dragon Fighting and only has access to Hi Jump Kick and Dragon Pulse for it's STABs. This one also might just have 90 in everything.

I'm not really asking for inspiration or help, I'm filled with the inspiration, I just kind of wanted to get this out there and see which of my current ideas is most interesting to everyone else.

I like the idea of the muay thai fighter with arena trap as pokemon really doesn't represent many other forms of fighting other than what you stated, kickboxing, boxing, and sumo. 

Also i like the idea of a reengineered aero and the idea of the scientist who studied under team plasma and left and created his own army of weaker pokemon. But the only 3 (i think) man made pokemon in pokemon are Genesect, Mewtwo, and the Porygons (i believe they were made along with the invention of computers in pokemon and help keep computers running) idk about the Porygons though... now as i see it i always think of man made pokemon being Psychic, Steel, or Normal mostly and therefore you could go into more depth about how this pokemon was created, was he given a steel plated exoskeleton like Genesect or genetically cloned like Mewtwo? Just go in a little more detail with it though so that we can understand why it's Dragon/Fight instead of what its clone or pokemon it was altered from was. Such as Genesect being Bug/Steel and Kabutops being Water/Rock or how both Mew and Mewtwo are Psychic, maybe its a mixture of pokemon DNA like they took the DNA of some extinct dragon and combined it with the DNA of some intense super powerful fighting type pokemon like one of the Swords of Justice or something. That'd be cool seeing as how Dragon type is the most powerful type in 5th gen and how Terrakion and Keldeo run through Standard with their fighting type and strong power.

Also i since i just mentioned the Swords of Justice i thought of another fighting type style they covered, Sword fighting, or Fencing.

Also it seems to my knowledge that Sawk and Throh represent Karate and maybe Throh represents some type of other grappling form of fighting (wrestling?)

since Invalid mentioned straight base 90 stats i thought about incorporating a pokemon i made awhile ago who is sort of like my version of celebi/jirachi/manaphy/victini/mew except with straight base 90s.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

if you can't tell the idea for pharule started with a fusion sprite of jirachi and kakuna derp

Spoiler:

Gassy, there aren't only 3 man-made Pokémon.

Think about Castform, who was created in the weather institute in Hoenn.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Artificial_Pok%C3%A9mon

There are many "man-made" Pokémon.

Actually I've always considered that when you restore a fossil Pokemon you're naturally getting an altered form, I think Kabutops and Omastar are only rock type because in Pokemon logic, when you restore a "rock" fossil, you'll get a "rock" pokemon. The whole dragon fight thing could be explained with psuedo science, maybe he bred his own aerodactyl, allowed it to be fossilized in ground dragon fangs and protein (or something else that embodies fighting types), and then restored it resulting in a dragon fighting Fossil Pokemon.

Alternatively, it could just be that once he begins incubating it, he can just splice the genes until he gets what he wants.

I'm sort of concerned being as the last 3 CAPs to be put out are all fast special attackers with Calm Mind or Nasty Plot i know there was a need for more dark and psychic types but i don't think its necessary to make them all do the same thing. FFG and Frost's CAPs both have regenerator too which i find a bit odd. Idk i just think a physical Psychic or Dark type isn't too hard to ask for...

Normally I don't want people to choose their own CAP's weight, but in the case of biomorte, I would like diogo to specify a weight, also, I think it's a very stupid CAP, but not stupid enough for me to not implement it.

Also, to FlamingFrozenGnome and Diogo, I removed the mention of extra abilities from your posts. The votes will be happening, but I don't want mention of second abilities in submission.

Just noticed, Drillwurm is going to be an obnoxiously good lead, I'm not sure how I feel about it, but my gut reaction is to hate it.

I was looking over the CAPs and I noticed there aren't very many defensive things. Almost everything created so far is some sort of sweeper. ._.

Idk how much a tractor weighs xD

let's put it at 1000kg, I deduce that a crane + tractor will way much more, but that will be enough.

But why is my cap stupid?

Flamingfrozengnome wrote:

I was looking over the CAPs and I noticed there aren't very many defensive things. Almost everything created so far is some sort of sweeper. ._.

I tried that once, ended up too defensive and on to ubers xD

The concept is what I find stupid, also, why does it have shadow force, it's scared of everything, but it has giratina's sig move, that makes a lot of sense.

Also, I've implemented Valiair, Noshark, Drilwurm, Eonaqus, Cotnoir, Magidécès, Amphear, and Yetitsu.

If you actually read the concept, that was before having the ability of absorbing machinery xD

I can edit to make that clearer though

Yup, I had it in the original post >_>

"Now they have ghostly humanoid steel bodys made up of a screen for a head, and various heavy machines making up the body and various computer parts to help their inteligence increase and are not afraid of much now."

I can edit to make it better though

Invalid wrote:

Also, I've implemented Valiair, Noshark, Drilwurm, Eonaqus, Cotnoir, Magidécès, Amphear, and Yetitsu.

Did you do any change to Luterra?