CAP Discussion

Needle Arm is off though, and Power Whip can be replaced for Wood Hammer, I gave it Power Whip because it has a lower accuracy than it, even though Wood Hammer gives recoil.

As I said, I have lots of abilitys there to "use", the attempt is at not being OP

Okay, updated the chart. Possible abilitys are now Static or Intimidate.

Moves updated as well.

Name: Halloof

Preferred Sprite: Hoppip

Concept: This Pokemon has a round 'head', then a hollowed-out half circle under it. It has two black eyes, a yellow body, and red petals surronding its face. This Pokemon is light enough to float on air, and it angles its body while shooting out air from its bottom-part in order to move from place to place. This Pokemon is actually a normal flower when it is first born, but when it grows older, its 'flower' seperates from the stem and becomes able to fly in the air. This Pokemon is most often seen in the summer season, and it flies faster when its surronding temperature is hot.

Type: Grass / Flying

Base Stats:

Ability: Flare Boost

Moves:

Basically, this is the 'special' version of Swellow. It has great speed, passable attacking stats, and meager defenses, just like Swellow. It does have some good moves, but lacks ways to reliably hit certain Pokemon. Also, Flare Boost has to be activitated in order for it to be more effective. This isn't to say that it can't function without the self-burn from Flame Orb, but base 80 attack and base 90 special attack with meager defenses aren't going to take you many places, even with a high speed. In short, despite its high speed, I don't see it as all that broken.

Also, other people were making grass Pokemon, so I guess I had to make one too

EDIT: I changed the move Bullet Seed to Leaf Storm after I realized that Flare Boost does not negate the attack drop from Burn, and I moved 5 stat points from Attack to HP for much the same reason, that Flare Boost does not negate Burn's attack drop.

Invalid said we could try and make forms for our CAPs so i made a Corruption Form for Rabbart. Let me know if it's too much or w.e

Rabbart (Corruption Form)

Sprite: Nidoran-F

Concept: In it's Corruption Form Rabbart has gone mad from painting rotten eggs by mistake. Due to this it has gone insane and starts to paint horrible images on eggs and poison them with toxic paints to go rotten.

Type: Normal/Poison

Ability: Poison Touch

HP: 60
ATK: 110
DEF: 40
SPA: 90
SPD: 70
SPE: 100

BST: 470

Moves:
Sketch
Hi Jump Kick
Flamethrower
Poison Jab

Gassy, this forme of Rabbart outclasses the original in basically everyday possible. I like how you're doing the "Diogo stat balancing trick" where you're taking stats from places that don't matter at all, in this case the physical bulk and HP, and putting in places that matter a shit ton, in this case both offenses and speed.

In addition to everything Kingtrace just said, form changes don't change the HP stat.

@Supergassy: if you create an alternate form of Rabbert, you shouldn't make it totally outclass its previous form. For instance, this form of Rabbert almost completely outclasses Rabbert's 'normal' form. I agree that you should make the two forms somewhat different from each other, but don't make one form outclass the other form.

alright ill try to nerf it a bit but is the concept alright or do you think there's a better concept i can use to make it a different typing or something?

You could make it a normal / ice Pokémon (for a snow bunny) and make it specially based. That would be different, yet not totally outclassing the other form.

just in case he deletes it:

Gassy, I'm very disappointed in this newest CAP Inflect. http://diesel165.deviantart.com/art/Fake-Pokemon-Inflect-95987647 I legitimately have no clue why so many people just want to use other people's ideas. That's not the only issue, I'm curious just what the Truck this is supposed to change about the game other than adding something terrifying that outclasses Xatu and Macarbre. I was excited to see what the first Magic Bounce user would be like because I was hoping it would have exclusive typing to the current Magic Bounce users. Instead we get another Psychic type, one that will doesn't even take neutral from anything that Magic Bounce users couldn't already take neutral from. It's movepool even has Spikes and Rapid Spin. Honestly I have no clue what you were thinking with this thing.

I'm infuriated by Inflect. Not only do you have the balls to steal someone's art, but you also have the straight stupidity to steal the name of their pokemon. If we didn't know how to rip the URL straight from the image, we damn sure know how to Google. If it were up to me you'd be banned from CAP right now. My fiancee, Freddy Charming, is an artist, and I know how pissed she'd be if she found her image being used without permession, and by a moron who was too dumb to even change the name.

Also, if the artist was even semi-competitive, they'd also be pissed that you made Espeon and Xatu both completely outclassed by this bulky monster than has all of their support moves and more.

That's my art... o.O

that's my account on deviantart i can literally show you half the images on their are on my computer and everything... its a concept i literally came up with awhile ago, i don't steal artwork i is literally my own.

The whole concept behind inflect is to have a more bulky supportive pokemon, originally i was going to give it illusion with rocks and spikes but steel dragons suggested i use magic bounce instead and take off rocks. If you think the magic bounce is unnecessary then i will switch it with illusion again. Also note that its one of the first caps to really try and utilize rapid spin and give support to teams with its movepool.


But never accuse me of stealing art. I do make my own artwork and that IS my own deviantart account.

The CAP is broken, even I can see that, and when that happens, it's seriously bad


It has huge defenses,even with 6 weaknesses, and it's moves even help it get less damage and basically it gets everything bar Calm Mind Espeon's set that is viable on both Xatu or Espeon.

It is not broken. It has no way of reliable recovery therefore any damage it takes from hazards or anything is there to stay. And if Magic Bounce is taken off and Illusion is put on it can be status'd easily. Just because it's defenses are high doesn't mean shit. The things not going to take many hits anyway before it goes down, it's typing won't allow it too.

It doesn't need reliable recovery to do some damage(not actual direct damage). It's typing can be changed by conversion or reflect type.

Claydol doesn't have reliable recovery either, he's a rapid spinner and SR user, has Light Screen and Reflect, has lower defs, lower HP, NO Pain Split, and NO Magic Bounce and cannot change his typing via his own moves. Guess which tier he's in. And they both have 6 weaknesses.

Yours cannot be afflicted by status unless it comes from an attack with direct damage or Toxic Spikes already setup.
It has Glare, it can change it's typing and can completely stop Chansey without having to affect it that much.

It outclasses Espeon, Xatu and may eventually take some rapid spinner's places.

its supposed to be a good rapid spinner and i already said i'm going to take off magic bounce and claydol isn't as susceptible to hazards as inflect is. Being bug type it already takes 25% to stealth rocks which makes it obvious that it is using Illusion which is the ability im going to give it.

Changed Inflect's Defense stat to 120 and its Sp.Def to 100 and changed Pain Split to Mirror Shot and Conversion 2 to Charm. and took off Magic Bounce for Illusion.

Inflect	(Pineco)	Illusion
Standard	2x 1x 1/2x 1/4x	HP 80 270-364 Atk 40 76-196 Def 120 220-372 SpA 70 130-262 SpD 100 184-328 Spe 30 58-174
	Creator: SupahGassy	BST: 440

Moves:

Spoiler:

Inflect chart

I'm currently considering nomming En-Ghoul to Ubers come the next suspect vote. Attempts have been made to limit it without fundmentally changing anything, but I feel that the egg move limit isn't enough to keep it from Ubers.

For convenience, this is the set I'm talking about:

En-Ghoul (Golett) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Shadow Sneak
- Storm Throw

Even without Speed investment, 110 gives it a lot of things to set up on. Non boosted Special Attacks become setup fodder, stronger Special Attacks, like Latios, Starmie, Alakzam, or Serperior, need to sacrifce their lives and sometimes still fail to stop it.

Now, when it comes to setting up on Physical Pokes, you actually need team support, but by running Will-O-Wisp, you're forcing the Phys. Poke to either take the burn, or switch to a Special Pokemon, either way you're set to setup.

And it makes Stall a fucking joke, but I guess no one cares about stall anyway. XD

So, yeah. Discuss.

If you agree with me, please try to make your arguments intelligent. If you make my point look stupid I'm going to explode.

In skype, you yourself told me you didn't think Swords Dance would be a problem. Invalid and Steel had both recommended it during development as well.

So, what if Swords Dance replaced Bulk Up?

Basically, En-ghoul is like a better Scizor in many ways. The only difference in power between En-Ghoul's Shadow Sneak and Scizor's Bullet Punch is in comparing En-Ghoul's base 125 attack to Scizor's 130 attack. Also, En-Ghoul arguably gets better coverage than Scizor does with just two moves (a ghost move and a fighting move). Enghoul also is overall more bulky than Scizor (Scizor's 70 / 100 / 80 stats compared to En-Ghoul's 90 / 80 / 80 stats). Finally, En-Ghoul has that high base 110 speed, which means that En-Ghoul will usually have the speed-edge against many Pokémon, even if it is un-boosted.

Now, lets look at some other facts:

En-Ghoul's weaknesses are Ghost, Psychic, and Flying. Ghost and Psychic moves usually are only seen on Ghost and Psychic Pokémon. Most of those Ghost and Psychic Pokémon are taken out by Shadow Sneak after a Bulk-Up boost, as most of those Pokémon don't have the highest physical defense. For example, Alakazam, Gengar, Latios, and Starmie (all Pokémon that speed-tie or outspeed En-Ghoul) all really can't take on En-Ghoul. Once En-Ghoul gets a bulk up boost, they are pretty much dead in the water. Now, there are other Psychic and Ghost Pokémon that do actually have some defense. However, many of them still have trouble with En-Ghoul:

Also, Shadow Sneak is resisted by three types: Dark, Normal, and Steel. Guess which tpe hits all of those types for super-effective damage? You guess it; Fighting moves, which En-Ghoul gets stab on, hits all of those types for super-effective damage. In addition, ghost moves hit the types that resist Fighting moves for neutral damage at worst.

Basically, En-Ghoul has many things going for it. The main thing though is that En-Ghoul gets stab on two types of moves that happen to compliment each other very well. Also, it helps that it has strong priority, which enable it to deal with many Pokémon that can threaten En-Ghoul. In many ways, En-Ghoul is better than Scizor, Scizor being one of the best priority users in the game.

I think that I will also nominate En-Ghoul for ubers as well.

Quote :

So, what if Swords Dance replaced Bulk Up?

I don't think it will change that much. En-Ghoul will become a different kind of threat though; it would be more offensively based. It would just mean that it could get to +2 attack easily and have really strong priority. It wouldn't be impossible to deal with, but it would still be hard.

I have to strongly agree with steel dragons here. En-Ghoul's typing is way too defensive and with its bulk and strong offense coupled with a good speed stat it's no easy feat to knockout. i don't believe either than swords dance or even taking off stat boosting moves will balance it. even with a choice band and technician shadow sneak its like a more threatening speedy scizor because as steel said its weakness to ghost and psychic is stopped by having that priority shadow sneak which is so desperately crucial to it taking out enemy threats. it's something i am defiantly nominating to ubers.

Name: Luterra

Prefered sprite: Drilbur

Concept: It's a humanoid like Pokémon that gets energy off the earth itself. It trains everyday below the surface of the earth and only comes out to feed off plants. It fights and meditates everyday to keep itself aware of the predators around him. It can sense vibrations from the earth if they're at 30m or less from him. It's hands were once claws, but those claws evolved into hands that are hard as steel. Even living in caves, it has good eyesight that allows it to roam in the surface. It's body is brown with some green stripes that look like grown plants. It's not very fast, but can enhance his speed for brief moments by using it's willpower to challenge his own body limits.

Type: Fighting/Ground

Moves:

Ability: Technician/Iron Fist(I'd actually like help choosing here xD)

Base Stats:

Luterra	(Drilbur)	Ability?
Standard	2x 1x 1/2x 1/4x 0x	HP 70 250 - 344 Atk ? ? Def 70 131 - 262 SpA 40 77 - 197 SpD 70 131 - 262 Spe 75 140 - 278
	Creator: Diogofrp10	BST: ?

Remember when I had that little bit at the end of my post telling people that agreed with me not to be stupid? I think we may have missed that.

On the topic of Swords Dance, I think that could be a reasonable solution. What Gassy and Steel both fail to realize on a large scale is that without bulky investment, En-Ghoul can't actually setup on a whole lot. Yes, it's defensive typing is pretty good, but without the HP and Special Defense afforded to it by a bulky set, I don't know if it will be broken anymore.

I'd like to hear what a few more people (namely Invalid) think about Swords Dance before I commit to any solution, but if it lost Bulk Up and gained Swords Dance, I'd definitely give it awhile for testing before nomming it up.

Diogo, it seems you've forgotten that incomplete CAPs go in the Discussion forum. Though, honestly, you may have also failed to read the titles of the threads before posting, that seems just as likely.

I can't tell you what to pick because you left a large amount of holes in your cap. Finish it and then I'll see what I think you should do.