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 Snow Cloak / Sand Veil Poll

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Should Snow Cloak and Sand Veil be Banned?
Yes, they both should be banned.
40%
 40% [ 2 ]
No, they both should not be banned.
60%
 60% [ 3 ]
Only Sand Veil should be banned.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Only Snow Cloak should be banned.
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 5
 

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PostSubject: Snow Cloak / Sand Veil Poll   Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:31 am

So, should the abilities Sand Veil and Snow Cloak be banned? They are banned right now, and I know that there was a discussion on this before. What do you all think?

Also, vote on the poll below.
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PostSubject: Re: Snow Cloak / Sand Veil Poll   Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:57 am

I think that both abilities should be allowed, for these reasons:

First, the abilities only increase evasion by 20% in sand or hail, meaning that roughly 80% of the time they won't help that Pokemon. Also, the abilities ONLY work in their respective weather. Since all four weather conditions are viable, and all four now have Pokemon that can set up their perma-weather (for example, Ninetales has Drought, which sets up perma-sun), in reality its more than an 80% chance that these abilities will not affect the game. So, I don't see why these abilities should be banned, since they won't affect games too much. Sure, one miss can greatly change the game at times, but I don't think that these abilities are game breaking.

Also, without Snow Cloak or Sand Veil, some Pokemon get unfair move restrictions. the main Pokemon that I'm thinking about are Cacturne and Froslass. Both of them get Sand Veil / Snow Cloak as their 'normal' ability, and a Dream World ability. If Cacturne and Froslass can't use Sand Veil and Snow Cloak, then they would lose out on some good moves (or their egg moves and 4th generation moves). Cacturne wouldn't be able to use moves like Seed Bomb, Nasty Plot, Disable, Focus Punch, Drain Punch, and Dark Pulse, while Froslass wouldn't be able to use moves like Spikes, Disable, Ice Punch, Trick, and Pain Split. I don't see why we should 'punish' these Pokemon, because they have abilities that usually won't affect battles.

Finally, I'm all for banning some things though. I would have the ban Brightpowder + Snow Cloak (and other similar combinations) if it isn't there already, and I could understand banning Sand Veil Garchomp, since its that good.

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PostSubject: Re: Snow Cloak / Sand Veil Poll   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:42 pm

Simple Answer Both should be banned, we ban hax items why not ban hax abilities.

Real Answer, in order to accommodate for the Pokemon who lose important moves it should be allowed but the server should be recoded to remove evasion from the abilities leaving only the immunity it gives to the weather (it makes Cacturne immune to Sand Damage). I do feel where the people are coming from who are losing moves on their Pokemon that's a fair complaint, but the people who are upset that they can't have free hax abilities anymore are just wrong, these abilities directly take away from the spirit of the game.

Final Note: The more things like this we do, the harder it will ever be to play our tier on wifi, if we specifically recode abilities, there's really no way to emulate those changes on a DS, this is why Smogon doesn't do this, Smogon's goal is to have an identical tier on both Simulator and DS. We haven't cared about compatibility from the start, choosing Dreamworld as our main tier, and still to this day not using wifi clause. I'm not proposing we change standard to accommodation for DS, but I am proposing we stop hosting Smogon Standard, and start our own Wifi Tier, And by propose I mean I'm just going to do it.

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PostSubject: Re: Snow Cloak / Sand Veil Poll   Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:04 pm

I think none should be banned. Not many great pokemon who have the abilities apart from Garchomp. He is already uber. I think It is pretty easy to get around.

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