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 Golurk [Standard]

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PostSubject: Golurk [Standard]   Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:21 am

GolurkAutomaton Pokémon
No Guard
2x
1x
1/2x
1/4x
0x
HP89288-382
Atk124237-381
Def80148-284
SpA55103-229
SpD80148-284
Spe55103-229
Iron Fist
Klutz
Overview:
Golurk has the highest attack out of all ghost type pokemon. Unfortunately, despite its good stats and abilities, its movepool came up short. However with the coming of the BW2 tutors, Golurk was given much more options to make use of, allowing it to fill a wide variety of roles on any team.

Sets

ShinyMech!
Breakdown (Golurk) @ Life Orb
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
This was one of Golurk's first staples. Rock Polish doubles Golurk's lackluster speed, making it a significant threat. No Guard will ensure Stone edge and Dynamic punch always land for massive damage. Earthquake may seem like redundant coverage, but it actually works rather well on this set. If you want, it can be swapped out for one of Golurk's newer options like Stealth Rock or the elemental punches. However for this set replacing Stone Edge would be pointless, considering it's half of what makes No Guard useful.

Iron Fist
Breakdown (Golurk) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Ice Punch
This set makes use of the wonderful new moves Golurk received from BW2. With the new punches Golurk has, Iron Fist is now much more viable. Drain Punch will hit hard, allowing you to gain back large portions of your health and deal heavy damage. Earthquake is a powerful STAB that OHKO's Heatran and similar enemies easily. Rock Polish is here once again to boost your speed to insane levels, possibly even enabling sweeps. Ice Punch is excellent coverage for dragons like Salamence or Haxorous, and can deal with grass threats like Breloom. Drain Punch should be enough to recover off most of your Life Orb recoil but if you're worried about being worn down, try Leftovers instead. You can also run other elemental punches or Shadow Punch over Ice Punch, to suit whatever coverage your team needs.

Trick Room
Breakdown (Golurk) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
Golurk may not seem like the best candidate for a Trick Room team member at first, but it can actually perform the role rather well. Its base speed is fairly low, so more often than not Golurk will benefit from Trick Room. With Iron Fist and Life Orb, Golurk will be hitting foes like a semi truck. Shadow Punch and Drain Punch will provide you with unresisted coverage, and with the Iron Fist boost both will deal massive damage. As mentioned above Ice Punch can be replaced with any other elemental punch to suit your team. Hammer Arm is another option for this set, as it has an amazing 100 base power, which is boosted even higher by Iron Fist. The "drawback" is that it lowers Golurk's speed, however this is very helpful for Trick Room, as it will further ensure Golurk is not outsped.

Checks and Counters:
Rotom-W can hit Golurk hard with Hydro Pump, which makes matters worse if Golurk is running No Guard. However if the Rotom is choiced, Rotom can end up having itself trapped when trying to use Volt Switch, allowing Golurk to hit whatever switches in for massive damage, or set up Stealth Rocks or a free Rock Polish. Venusaur and Breloom can easily outspeed an unboosted Golurk, and KO it with STAB grass moves, or hit it with status moves like Leech Seed or Spore. A Rock Polish Golruk may find itself hard pressed to set up, as it is severely crippled without doing so. It is much frailer than it looks, so setting up Rock Polished without forcing a switch can be very difficult. While Golurk can hit Scizor hard with fighting moves, a STAB EQ, or Fire Punch, it does not appreciate a banded Scizor's Bullet Punch, or Pursuit. Gengar can be a problem, but if Golurk is boosted enough it can hit Gengar with a fatal Shadow Punch. Water types in general are a threat if Golurk isn't running Thunder Punch. However Politoed can usually take a good beating, and kill Golurk off with a Hydro Pump in rain. Cofagrigus can withstand Golurk's Shaodw Punch and rid it of its ability, making any of its sets less effective. This will allow Cofagrigus to set up, or hit Golurk with a super effective Shadow Ball. Sableye can stop Golurk from setting up with Taunt, and burn it to half its attack, taking advantage of its weakness free typing to stall Golurk out.

Teammates:
Thanks to receiving each of the elemental punches, Golurk can function on a wide variety of teams. Sun teams will appreciate Golurk's hard hitting Iron Fist Fire Punch. It can also do well on sand teams. Golurk was given Stealth Rocks as well, which is somewhat unexpected. Golurk's typing also allows it to be a hazard user as well as a spin blocker, which is a fairly desirable niche. Golurk can also function well on Gravity teams. Gravity raises Dynamic Punche's accuracy, which combined with Iron Fist deals massive damage. It also ensures that nothing can avoid Golurk's powerful STAB EQ.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:02 pm

Scarf Golurk can also work, as it patches up its average speed and has good surprise value.
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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:14 pm

Ok, here are my suggestions:

Honestly, I think that you should get rid of the second set altogether. The first set mostly outclasses the second set simply because it packs more power, and a 100% accurate Dynamicpunch will mess with opponents' strategies. Iron Fist is a decent ability, but in a rock Polish set you generally want the most power possible, and the first set provides that. I would slash Ice Punch as an option over Stone Edge or Dynamicpunch simply because of the coverage that Ice Punch offers.

I would add a sub-Punch set, as Iron Fist boosted Focus Punches have base 180 power, which packs a big punch. Golurk is also bulky enough to do it also. I think it would look like this:

Golurk w/ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Adamant nature
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
-Focus Punch
-Substitute
-Shadow Punch
-Earthquake / Ice Punch / Stone Edge

Shadow Punch pairs well with Focus Punch, so I think that its a 'must-have' for this set. The last slot hinges on whether you want a powerful move (Earthquake) or added coverage (Ice Punch and Stone Edge

Also, for the TR set, I think that you should go the 'No-Guard' route, simply because of the power difference and 100% accurate Dynamicpunches. For the moves, it should probably be Dynamicpunch, Earthquake, and two out of these three: (Stone Edge, Shadow Punch, Ice Punch).

I hope that these suggestions were helpful to you. What do you think about them?
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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:22 am

Despite what most people think Steel, Golurk isn't bulky. That HP is backed by less than average defenses. I've been using Golurk on a fairly regular basis with that exact EV spread and i can assure you those subs would be breaking constantly. Not only that but it's too slow to get them up before anything with no speed investment or rock polish. Simply put as someone who has been using Golurk for quite a while now, this set does not seem as viable to me as you make it sound. As for no guard I really dont see why people like it better on Golurk. It's only used for Stone Edge and Dynamic punch and most people run the former on other things without the ability. Dynamic punch is nice but Iron Fist brings other punching moves fairly close to its bp. Besides no guard also makes you Hydro Pump bait, which golurk happens to die from in nearly all cases. Hell its "bulk" is so bad that invalid actually runs a sashed set for hazards because Golurk is one shotted by so many things. I think Golurk is a poke people need to try out, because honestly I've seen no one using it AFTER the tutors, which have changed things up for it a lot. And to be frank it's a pokemon most people have never touched, hence the "bulky" reputation. You guys need to consider that I actually ran these sets in the standard metagame, and i'd like to think people don't see me as stupid enough to post them for no reason XD

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:41 am

steel dragons wrote:


...

I would add a sub-Punch set, as Iron Fist boosted Focus Punches have base 180 power, which packs a big punch. Golurk is also bulky enough to do it also. I think it would look like this:

Golurk w/ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Adamant nature
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
-Focus Punch
-Substitute
-Shadow Punch
-Earthquake / Ice Punch / Stone Edge

Also, for the TR set, I think that you should go the 'No-Guard' route, simply because of the power difference and 100% accurate Dynamicpunches. For the moves, it should probably be Dynamicpunch, Earthquake, and two out of these three: (Stone Edge, Shadow Punch, Ice Punch).

Iron Fist boosted Focus Punch, where have I heard that... Oh yeah Infernape, oh and it gets STAB too, that's nice. Infernape is a good reference for comparison with this set because not only does it have all the same moves, and the same ability, but it's faster, and it gets stab on the primary move whifch is Focus Punch. Now to get to your claim that Golurk is bulky, let's have a quick look at Infernape's stats

HP: 76
Attack: 104
Defense: 71
Sp.Atk: 104
Sp.Def: 71
Speed: 108

Hmm, not so much less bulky than Golurk is it? and would you call Infernape bulky, when I hear people talking about it's bulk the term glass cannon comes up quite a lot, it's at least frail.

What was Golurk's Speed again? 55? hmm, that's the same a Blissey's, and you didn't give it a single Speed EV, meaning that the standard 4 Spe Blissey will actually outspeed it, that's not good when you consider Blissey and Chansey are the only Pokemon this set has a chance to set up on. it won't be much fun when you're putting in a sub to check if it has Ice Beam, but instead you get outsped and killed. That said I'll just assume you're going to fix the Speed investment and move on. You probably think Golurk can get up a sub by forcing switches. This isn't the case, no one ever does, or at least shouldn't ever, switch out, switching out on a Golurk. Dynamic Punch should never be switched into. You've played against Machamp right?

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:24 am

Croconaw wrote:
Scarf Golurk can also work, as it patches up its average speed and has good surprise value.
Scarf Golurk at max speed is outsped by both Gengar and Infernape. Considering infernape outspeeds it a decent bit if other things will too. Gengar is the nail in the coffin as it will OHKO with shadow ball if you don't invest hp. After rocks it doesn't even stand a chance. Considering this, it isn't worth limiting your options.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:11 am

Ah. I need to calc these thing beforehand <.>
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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:40 pm

Ok, thanks for replying Frost.

Anyway, I can see your (and Invalid's) point about the Sub-punch set. Golurk isn't the bulkiest thing in the world

I still see the first two Rock Polish sets as being too similar to each other. Let me make another point though. You said that Golurk was Hydro Pump bait. However, lets say that Golurk uses Rock Polish, and something with Hydro Pump, like Rotom-W, switches in. With the second set, Golurk has a 80% chance of being hit by Hydro Pump (and in this case, will probaly switch out), and Golurk couldn't hit Rotmo-W that hard. With the first set, assuming Golurk outspeeds Rotom-W, Golurk could hit Rotom-W with Dynamicpunch, then Rotom-W would only have a 50% chance of hitting Golurk with Hydro Pump. Solely because of the Dynamicpunch factor, I think that the Rock Polish No Guard set is better than the Rock Polish Iron Fist set.

A few more things:

- For the Rock Polish No guard set, i think that Ice Punch is better than Stone Edge, simply for the coverage on foes like Gliscor and Salamence.

- For the Rock Polish Iron Fist set, I would prefer Shadow Punch over Drain Punch to reliably hit foes like Jellicent, Latios, and Gengar. It is sort of a toss up though, as Drain Punch does hit some things like Ferrothorn and Balloon Heatran that Golurk's other moves can't hit.

- I'm not implying that you don't 'know your stuff' Frost, but at the same time I just don't agree with some of the things that you listed here. This is a decent analysis Frost, better than some others on here.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:37 am

Well Steel you can really only get so much out of No Guard. Like I said the only reason to even use it is for Stone Edge and Dynamic Punch, as those are the only real ways Golurk even benefits from it. And since Golurk is painfully slow, not running rock polish or trick room just isn't an option for it. So yes the Iron Fist and No guard sets are kind of similar, but the main difference is Golruk has more options for Iron Fist. And when I was saying those things to you about No guard, those were just my opinions and preferences. I listed No guard as the first set because I do realize that it's the one people prefer, however it is not the ONLY useful one. And the thing is, that's pretty much the only good no guard set. I'm sorry that the other two aren't using No guard but they'd be exactly the freaking same, and if you already think they are maybe that's because Golurk's options are similar. But I did list in each set descriptions alternate options already, several of which being preferences you expressed wanting to see. For instance, you said you'd prefer Ice Punch over Stone edge in set one, but I already mentioned that you'd be better off replacing EQ in that set instead, because running No Guard without Stone edge makes it 50% more pointless than it was before. And if you're arguing for "raw power" why even run ice punch on a non iron fist set? It will be significantly weaker without the ability.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Quote :
And if you're arguing for "raw power" why even run ice punch on a non iron fist set? It will be significantly weaker without the ability.

True, Ice Punch would be weaker than Stone edge, especially without Iron Fist. However, the reason that I said that was that Ice Punch hits more targets than Stone Edge in my opinion. In particular, Ice Punch lets Golurk deal with Gliscor, which it would have trouble with otherwise.

For the second set, I really do think that Shadow Punch should be listed instead of Drain Punch. Drain Punch, while it is a nice move, really doesn't offer much coverage with Earthquake and Ice Punch. It gets coverage on Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran, but thats really it. Shadow Punch, on the other hand, hits foes like Gengar, Jellicent, Starmie, Latios, and other Golurks hard. Shadow Punch also is more powerful than Drain Punch anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:13 pm

I found this set (from smogon) recently. It seems worthwhile to include.

Golurk w/ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Impish nature
Evs: 252 HP, 176 Def, 80 Atk
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch / Shadow Punch

Basically, this set is designed to set up Stealth Rock, while being bulky and powerful enugh to deal with certain threats. Most notably, this set counters Terrakion quite nicely (I don't think that its 2HKOed by any of Terrakion's attacks. While not being the best physically defensive Pokemon out there, it can also be used to counter other physical threats, like Scizor with Fire Punch and Gliscor with Ice Punch.
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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:20 pm

frost why didn't you put my golurk set up? its the best on ever
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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:29 pm

I have to agree that this thing is best used as a bulky wall, and that Steel Dragons knows what's up.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:45 am

Look, I know there's been a lot of controversy over this, so I'm going to try and clear the air.

I tested ALL of these sets, between actually using them or running calcs, every set here, including the replied ones, have been tested, thought out, and read over.

What I've learned from this ordeal is that a lot of people think Golurk can do things it's just not capable of doing. Yes that includes the smogon set. Golurk is more fragile than people think. The illusion of "bulk" comes from the fact that it is generally not ohko'd as frequently as other ghosts. However, it does not take hits well at all. The problem with all of the non speed boosting sets, is that at MOST Golurk will almost always get only two turns. Super effective moves will render you 2hko'd at the very least. That means in all of these sets where golurk isn't trying to boost its speed in some way, it will end up taking too much damage to live another hit, before it can actually fight back. All I see when I look at those sets is death fodder :/

In the rocks set, the only move I ever found myself using was stealth rocks. Golurk has a wide variety of common weaknesses, so leading or switching in is EXTREMELY difficult for it. 9 times out of ten, you have to come in on the scizor to actually even try to hurt it. Since your job is to set up rocks, you need to waste a turn doing that too. Bullet punch 3hko's Golurk, so then you don't even get to hit the scizor with fire punch! (I'm only mentioning this because this set is "good against scizor")

The fact is, Golurk isn't the best pokemon out there. It has 5 annoyingly common weaknesses, mediocre bulk at best, and terrible speed. Outside of rock polish and trick room, Golurk simply doesn't have any other workable options in OU. If those sets don't seem good to you Steel, that's probably because Golurk isn't that good in this tier. There are too many fast, strong things that can kill it off, and it's outclassed by other physical attackers like scrafty or machamp. That's probably why most people don't have a good understanding of what it can actually do, because it's not that good and they don't want to use it. I mostly only even use it for my gym teams! Maybe the one's you recommended are better in other tiers, but this analysis is for standard. And while it isn't the best option to use it there, it is possible as long as you compensate for your lack of speed. A golurk that doesn't do that is doomed to fail in standard, end of story

I'm kind of surprised that this thing, a pokemon that has little to no usage, has generated so much controversy. If anything I was expecting Gengar to be the flame war, not something like Golurk.

Also I don't want this incident to discourage ANYONE from questioning a set. This kind of discussion is fine, as long as it's civil. For the most part, that's how things were here. Analysis readers or writers shouldn't be afraid of sharing their opinions and disagreements. Debate is a good thing to have in this section, so don't be afraid to start one. Just remember to be civil and logical.

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PostSubject: Re: Golurk [Standard]   Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:41 pm

Finally, you have to note that the Golurk set Steel posted is from Smogon's NU section, and is made to tank hits from NU sweepers and outspeed Gardabor. Come on, now, do your research.

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