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 Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread

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PostSubject: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:06 pm

So I realized we need this because I actually wanted to discuss. Everyone, enjoy the thread. I'll put my first post in the OP because Truck artificially inflating post counts.

My First Opinions:
Steel, why would anyone want to delete Caleal, whenever it comes up in randbat I think it's fun, and it's so unremarkable. I don't see it as broken or underpowered. I think it basically accomplished exactly what CAP was meant for.

So far the only things I see that I really want out that weren't made by gassy are Cycobaria due to copying Biomorte too much, Valair due to general sucking, and Noctelux simply because I don't think it's ready to be implemented and as is it copies Cotnoir and does its job better.

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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:32 pm

I voted against Caleal because of its 'unremarkableness.' I just thought that it wouldn't have that much impact in CAP, and I don't see it filling a niche that certain Pokémon have (or being able to do something that only a few other Pokémon can do).

Anyway, i'll tell the reasons for my 'DELETE' votes:

Krush: because its Uber and quite powerful.
Mevenetalno: because since it lost Cosmic Power, it hasn't been nearly as good as it was before
Caleal: because of its 'unremarkableness'
Cycobaria: because of it copying Biomorte, and because I don't like the concept and certain other things about it.
Noctelux: because of it copying Cotnoir, and because I don't think its ready in general to be implemented.

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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:19 pm

Steel, if you're voting against CAPs that are "Uber and quite powerful", I find it curious that you didn't vote for Goulia, a CAP that was much less controversially Uber than Krush.

On top of that, being too powerful doesn't make you worth deleting, it makes you Ubers. Being Ubers doesn't mean something should be deleted.

In short, please explain why being Uber makes a CAP worthy of deletion, and why Krush is more worthy of it than Goulia.

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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:57 pm

En-Ghoul is my unwanted child. I know I'm the only one who voted against their own thing so I thought I'd just explain to all of you that I never liked it ever XD

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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:00 pm

kingtrace wrote:
Steel, if you're voting against CAPs that are "Uber and quite powerful", I find it curious that you didn't vote for Goulia, a CAP that was much less controversially Uber than Krush.

On top of that, being too powerful doesn't make you worth deleting, it makes you Ubers. Being Ubers doesn't mean something should be deleted.

In short, please explain why being Uber makes a CAP worthy of deletion, and why Krush is more worthy of it than Goulia.
@Kingtrace: You have a point there; being uber and powerful isn't a reason for deletion. I didn't accurately state the reason that I voted 'DELETE' for Krush.

My reason for deleting Krush is that I'm not a big fan of its ability to stall out a good number of Pokémon with the combination of Cosmic Power and Rest, combined with the power of its Gyro Ball attacks. It only has one weakness (Fighting) and six other types of attacks that hit it neutrally. It already has above average to great defenses, so using Cosmic Power multiple times, combined with its 11 resistances, can make it really hard to stop. Also, its not just a wall; it has base 120 attack, Gyro Ball, and low speed, which is an ideal formula for delivering strong hits on most opposing Pokémon. I would go so far as to say that Krush is better than Mevenetalno was when Mevenetalno had Cosmic Power.

I just think that as it stands, the game is less fun when Krush is the opposing Pokemon facing you, and when you don't have a sure-fire way to deal with Krush. I don't really want CAPs like that to be in our CAP metagame. I'm not saying that there aren't ways to deal with Krush, or that I don't like stall strategies in general, but I just don't like Krush that much.
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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:37 pm

I still don't think you're making a whole lot of sense, and the reason I say that is because I agree with you and draw a whole different conclusion.

Krush was and is better at what Mevenetalno does than Mevenetalno used to be. Krush is hard to deal with in the Standard CAP Metagame. Most things get lol'd at by Krush's massive defenses. And do you know what we did about that? We sent it to Ubers, where everything else lols at it.

It isn't invincible there, it doesn't hit anything super hard, it's Set-Up fodder for Mewtwo, and it isn't alone. Again, I bring back Goulia, a CAP with THE SAME list of complaints.

Goulia has three immunities, and amazing bulk, one weakness, and great offense. Unlike Krush, it doesn't just set-up in a defense and laugh until things are out of PP, it just kills them. It has Calm Mind, Recover, and Magic Guard, and Stats that Reuniclus would kill for, along with a better typing.

There's nothing that can kill it besides other Goulia running Dark Pulse in Standard, and it made the game very centralized and frustrating, so we sent it to Ubers, and now no one cares about it.

That's where Krush is. Krush is in Ubers. It isn't bothering anyone. I can name you TONS of Ubers that can easily kill it or phaze it or cripple it.

Can you explain why an Uber being to good in Standard means we should delete it, and again, even if you can do that, explain why you don't think it should happen to the only other Uber.

I'm confident we both know why you're not treating Goulia the same way, but I'll give you the chance to say it.

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PostSubject: Re: Gen 6 CAP Implementation Vote Discussion Thread   Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:36 pm

Ok, I see your point; its like comparing apples to oranges basically. I changed my vote for Krush.

I have two questions though:

1. Will we be able to change the movepools of the CAPs that were already made? Obviously, with the new generation, there are new moves that could be useful to certain CAPs.

2. Why no (or not much) love for Halloof? I'm just curious, since it doesn't seem overwhelming at all, and it has Flare Boost, which is very unique. Its basically a special version of Swellow (though Swellow is probably more powerful because of stabbed, double power Façade).


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