Next-Gen Changes

Subject: Next-Gen Changes Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:39 pm

Next Gen Changes:

Spoiler:

Original Post:

Spoiler:

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:43 pm

To Do List:
Make Cloud Nine remove weather
Give Drifblim Air Slash, Confuse Ray, and Roost.
Make Glaceon good.
Jumpy/Reflexes - An ability that causes newly switched in Pokemon to automatically use Sucker Punch that turn.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

Roost is going to be changed to recover on Drifblim because Roost is broken on it. After Thunder Wave (which it already learns) Drifblim takes half the damage from all of its flying weaknesses, which allows it to outstall a wide variety of its threats.

Glaceon now has Snow Warning, and its stat changes are as follows: Defense is now 95, spdef is now 65, 110 in speed. Psychic was added to its movepool because it is painfully shallow. If you wanted to run a specs set in hail you would literally have to use both Ice Beam and Blizzard because Glaceon didn't have enough specially offensive moves.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:15 am

Ok, my thoughts:

For Cofagrigus, I don't see why we would have to make Cofagrigus part-steel. Cofagrigus already has the defenses to last a while, and it would probably go first against nearly every opponent because of its ability. I mean, if you're facing a +6 speed Salamence or something like that, just send in Cofagrigus, then BAM, Cofagrigus is faster then KOs (or does heavy damage) to Salamence.

Now, my question is this: would you be able to use Trick Room (as the move) while other weather like rain is active? What I would suggest is this: Make the ability 'Tricked Out' only last for five turns (same amount of time as trick room) and have it just be like you used Trick Room. I mean, I could just see this ability messing with many 'normal' offensive strategies to the point of almost being ridiculous.

Also, why are we making Drifblim so good? I mean, we're boosting its defenses, then giving it new moves? What's going on here?

Finally, are we going to have a tier that has all of these changes (and have a tier without them)? I just don't think that we should start changing stats of certain Pokemon in the main tiers.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

Cofa is part steel because it makes sense. It's made of gold, it eats gold, it looks like gold. And cofagrigus can't just "ko everything" like you said. It's stats aside from defense are all lackluster, and it lacks instant recovery. And it's countered fairly well by Ninetails now. It cancels out its TR and hits it with super effective stab. It's not nearly as broken as you made it out to be. What the ability does it make slow pokemon actually usable. No one bothers with trick room because surprise surprise, 5 turns isn't enough to get anything done. This will give slow pokes some limelight.

Drifblim isn't "so good." now either. You're blowing these changes way out of proportion. It's movepool is barely workable, even with what we gave it. It's still slow and barely has any special attack to work with. And drifblim isn't nearly as "good" as Chansey already is. You complain about us making changes like this but you have no problem with more broken things like Ferro or Chansey that already exist?

What's going on here is we're making things no one would even touch before usable and introducing new concepts. Sue us. The metagame is unfairly balanced towards tons of things. Fully evolved pokes like these and many others are completely neglected in favor of the status quo.

And if you hate all of this stuff, fear not. It's all going into a separate tier. The main metagame in which none of these things and many others are even looked at is going to be left completely in tact. None of these changes have even been implemented in the main server, they're all being tested on a separate one. They're going to be shove away into a separate tier where people who love things just the way they are can ignore them.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see in your complaints are "CHANGE BAD, GAMEFREAK GOOD."

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:46 pm

I'm not really saying that I hate these changes; my main thing is I don't just want to change certain Pokemon around and have that be the main (normal) OU tier. I'm perfectly fine with having that be a seperate tier.

I think that we should have some 'idea submission' sort of thing for the tier in general discussion (or somewhere where everyone could see it) so that other users can suggest certain ideas. For example, somene mght suggest adding Flare Blitz and Drought to Flareon, and other ideas like that.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

Sorry for being snippy. I was tired last night when i replied. As for suggestions we're planning on a discussion thread after the tier is officially released. Your ideas for flareon are great btw, we'll probably use them.
Again sorry for the atitude.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:13 pm

Frost wrote:: Sorry for being snippy. I was tired last night when i replied. As for suggestions we're planning on a discussion thread after the tier is officially released. You're ideas for flareon are great btw, we'll probably use them.
Again sorry for the atitude.

No problem Frost.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:27 am

I nominate Poliwrath to have the ability Drizzle in the next gen tier. Here are my reasons:

1. Its not too overpowered with Drizzle, but its not underpowered as well (underpowered like Luvdisc)
2. If we make Flareon have Drought and Glaceon have Snow Warning, then there will be two (usable) Pokemon in OU that can use weather-inducing abilities for all weather, except for Rain. Making Poliwrath have Drizzle will make it two Pokemon for every weather (not counting Tricked Out)
3. It does make sense, since Politoed has it as well.

Poliwrath just brings different options to the table, and it has a diferent stat distrubution than Politoed. In general, Politoed has slightly greater offenses, but Drizzle Poliwrath can be useful as well.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:30 am

As of now the changes are:

New Abilities:
Distortion - Trick Room Weather
Gravitation - Gravity Weather
Niflheim - Ice Moves are 1.6x as powerful in hail
Polar Express - 2.1x Speed in hail

Changed Abilities:
Cloud Nine: Now dispels weather permanently

Changed Moves:
Shadow Punch: 80 bp
Hurricane: Perfect Accuracy in hail, No more confusion
Grass Knot and Low Kick: Double Power in Gravity

Pokemon with new stats:
Drifblim - 100 def 100 sp def
Glaceon - 95 def 65 sp def 110 spe

Pokemon with new Abilities:
Flareon, Solrock: Drought
Articuno: Regenerator
Lunatone, Torterra, Dusknoir: Gravitation
Empoleon, Beartic: Polar Express
Cryogonal, Beartic: Niflheim
Glaceon: Snow Warning
Cofagrigus: Distortion

Pokemon with new moves:
Flareon: Flare Blitz
Glaceon: Psychic
Drifblim: Recover, Confuse Ray, Air Slash
Golurk: Mach Punch
Amoonguss: Leech Seed
Cryogonal: Power Gem, Luster Purge

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:33 am

My Wishlist:

Abilities:
Snow Cloak: instead of a 20% evasion boost in hail, it will give you the same effect as magic bounce in hail.
Jumpy: Uses sucker punch when you send it in. (would go to Ariados in first release)
Cloud Nine: Not only dispel weather, but prevent it from being cast while the Pokemon is out as well.
Color Change: Changes species (to a pokemon of the type of the move that hit it) and gives a random battle moveset (keeps color change as ability)(this would be insane to code)

More overhaul to Solrock and Lunatone
Manectric: Drizzle and Weather Ball

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:16 am

Why is Polar Express a 2.1x boost instead of just a 2x boost, and also why does Ice Hammer give a 1.6x power boost? I'm just curious; does it have to do with a certain Pokemon's stats, or is it that Hail isn't that good anyway? Also, I'm going to assume that Pokemon with Hail triggered abilities are not affected by Hail.

I also don't understand why Lunatone gets Gravitation and Solrock doesn't get it. I think that Solrock would be able to use Gravitation better than Lunatone anyway, as Solrock can now use 100% accurate Stone Edges, Earthquakes that hit everything, and to a lesser extent Zen Headbutt.

Also, is Poliwrath going to receive Drizzle?

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:41 am

In order:

Because Beartic and Empleon are too slow, so we added a slight kick.

Because running hail is risky enough that we need a little more power.

Good assumption.

Because, as the moon, it has more to do with earthly Gravity than the sun. And Solrock gets Drought.

No.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

My 2 cents: To be completely frank, I think we could have done something better with snow cloak. The magic bounce thing makes no sense at all to me, especially not on the pokemon that get it. And it would make Froslass INSANE. Now it can set up hazards, spin block, AND reflect them?! Sorry sirs but I object.

Why does hurricane have 100% accuracy in hail? I'm sure you guys want to make hail and probably articuno more viable, but hurricane is broken enough with rain coverage. This would also mean that Hurricane would now be the only move to be affected positively by two weathers already established. So while this does help hail, it also means that it is much less capable of standing up against rain (which it WOULD be able to significantly weaken otherwise). Not to mention that gravity will help hurricane as well, making it viable in 3 different weathers. I think if we're gonna do this we have to nerf it somehow. a 120 base power move that can confuse things being highly accurate in 3 situations sounds terrifying.

On the subject of movepools: Now that we have screwed with things typing (Cofagrigus) and abilities, are we going to give them new moves to match? For example, Cofa has no offensive steel moves that I know of, or any moves that steel types usually have. And Solrock doesn't really have any fire moves to match with drought. Not that I'm saying we have to change this, but are we going to? We also have to consider that the limitations of editing team builder makes this somewhat impractical. (also i didn't check the movepools of said things when i posted this, so correct me if i'm wrong.)

Also invalid you didn't give drifblim thunder wave, you gave it confuse ray. Drifblim already knows t-wave.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

To sum up my wall of text:

Undo Snow Cloak change, think of something better. It makes no sense and makes Froslass broken. Magic bounce is poorly distributed for a reason. It's good and nothing with it gets hazards, unlike Mamo and Froslass.

Remove Hurricane's Hail accuracy, again it's broken. Hurricane would be accurate in Gravity, Hail, and Rain. No me gusta. Also there's no such things as a "Snow Hurricane." And Articuno would be able to use both Hurricane and Blizzard at once. 2 Barely resisted high power stabs. Ouch.

Re-evaluate the movepools of things we've made major changes to concerning types and abilities.

Maybe ask Zarel if there's ANYTHING we can do about Teambuilder? In the long run all of these changes may be meaningless if they aren't readily apparent and available to people. We have to consider that Next-Gen is at the very bottom of the dropdown list for tiers, and none of these changes will be visible to people.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:49 am

I agree with Hurricane not having 100% acuracy in Hail. Part of weather strategies is making other weather strategies not execute well. Hail can counter Rain better when Hurricane is not 100% accurate, even though it could help hail as well.

I'm on the fence if the snow cloak change is good or not. I'm probably leaning toward not liking it, since it gives some unreasonable benefits to certain Pokemon (like Froslass and Mmoswine), but you still need active Hail to do them.

Also, a few more points:

Are we going to have any more new Sandstorm inducers in the near future? We're adding them for every other weather, so it is reasonable to ask. Personally, I like the number of Sand Stream users where it stands.

For the next gen tier, are we still going to have the Drizzle-Swim ban in effect? Again, we will have a lot of newer weather inducers, so they will be easier to fit unto teams. Will that be enough to offset how good Drizzle-Swim can be?

Some suggestions for other things:

- Give Excavalier the move Drill Run. It mostly makes sense, and Excavalier is just begging for a move like that.
- Make an item that nullifies a Pokemon's ability (when they hold it). It would make certain Pokemon easier to use, but it would also mean that they use their item slot for that item, limiting some things that they can do. My initial name for it would be the Suppression Orb.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:26 pm

I like the idea of the suppression orb--maybe have it do light damage or some stat decrease to the user upon use? I think I can code that up pretty easily too.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:01 pm

Surpression Orb would be a fairly decent trick item, crippling Levitate and several other essential abilities like regenerator. I for one, support.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:36 pm

The current state of suppression orb, For abilities that have an on start effect (including announcing) that effect happens, after (if) that, It announces "[Pokemon]'s [Ability] was suppressed". After the announcement no ability effects can happen. Abilities like Drizzle and Intimidate aren't stopped by this item. Abilities like Slow Start and Speed Boost are stopped by this item.

Code:: "suppressionorb": {
   id: "suppressionorb",
   name: "Suppression Orb",
   spritenum: 130,
   fling: {
      basePower: 40
   },
   onStart: function (pokemon) {
      if (pokemon.setAbility('')) {
         this.add('-endability', pokemon, pokemon.ability);
         return;
         }
         return false;
      },
   onModifyStats: function(stats, pokemon) {
         stats.atk *= 0.8;
   },
   desc: "Reduces the holder's attack 20% and removes the holder's ability"
},

As you might have noticed I used Eviolite as my template.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:51 am

Tested this on my server--it stops drizzle from happening! Very Happy

Code:: "rootfossil": {
   id: "rootfossil",
   name: "Root Fossil",
   spritenum: 418,
   fling: {
      basePower: 40
   },
onStart: function (pokemon) {
if (pokemon.setAbility('')) {
this.add('-endability', pokemon, pokemon.ability);
return;
}
return false;
},
onModifyPokemon: function(pokemon) {
      pokemon.ignore['Ability'] = true;
   },
onModifyStats: function(stats, pokemon) {
stats.atk *= 0.8;
},
desc: "Reduces the holder's attack 20% and removes the holder's ability"
},

This will replace Root Fossil with the Suppression Orb! (Replacing items works better in the teambuilder.)

Old stuff:

Spoiler:

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:46 am

Invalid and I were bsing and came up with an elemental Substitute variant that has a chance to inflict a status depending on the type.

Fire- Burn
Ice- Freeze
Poison- Poison
Electric- Para
Normal- Sleep

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:47 pm

Articuno won't be getting Regenerator, Stealth Rock only does extra damage to Flying Types in nextgen.

Upping Volt Tackle's Power (maybe 180) and Wild Charge's Power to 120

Snow Cloak and Sand Veil will now provide 10% def and 10% spdef boost in their respective weathers.

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:12 pm

Spoiler:

My latest work : P

Subject: Re: Next-Gen Changes Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:06 am

180 is too high for volt tackle, it needs something to make it worth using though since it has higher recoil than Wild Charge. 30% Paralysis w/ 130 bp?

Also since I'm trying to do this one type at a time from here on out. I'm going to go through a 'breakdown' of what we have so far:

Normal- Suppression Orb helps Regigigas and Slaking. Bouffalant is Normal/Ghost. Tri Attack is cool 3x30 bp hits.

Fighting- Low Kick's power doubled in Gravity.

Flying- Stealth Rock only does 25% to all Flying and 12.5% to everything else except Ground which takes 0%. Hurricane has perfect accuracy in hail and doesn't confuse anymore (still affected by Sheer Force, just in case). Drifblim.

Poison- Nothing

Ground- Immune to Spikes, except Ground/Flying. Sand Veil gives a 10% boost in def and sp def in sandstorm. Golurk gets Mach Punch. Gravitation. Gravitation Torterra.

Rock- Gravitation. Drought Solrock. Gravitation Lunatone.

Bug- Stealth Rock doesn't do 25% to it.

Ghost- Drifblim is God. Cofagrigus is God. Bouffalant is Normal/Ghost. Lick is now Ghost Type Revenge, Shadow Punch is now 80BP, Golurk gets Mach Punch.

Steel- Cofagrigus, Polar Express Empoleon

Fire- Stealth Rock doesn't do 25% to it. Better Distribution of Drought.

Water- Polar Express Empoleon.

Grass- Gravitation Torterra. Grass Knot's power doubled in Gravity. Amoongus gets Leech Seed.

Electric- Wild Charge to 120 bp. Volt Tackle to 130 bp and 30% para.

Psychic- Nothing

Ice- Niflheim. Polar Express. Snow Cloak now boosts defenses 10% in hail. Articuno is good. Hurricane has perfect accuracy in hail. Glaceon gets Snow Warning. Ice no longer takes 25% from Stealth Rock.

Dragon- Nothing

Dark- Faint Attack is 80 bp.

Sableye Tier Posts : 359 Rep : 50 Join date : 2012-02-23

They are not god, you Nas!