NO LEGENDS TIER BASICALLY EVERYTHING BUT LEGENDARY POKEMON ARE ALLOUD IN THIS TIER THAT MEANS NORMALL UBER ITEMS AND SOME ABILITY COMBOS ARE NOT BANNED IN THIS TIER AS LONG AS YOU DONT HAVE A SINGLE LEGENDARY KK.
What defines a 'legendary' Pokemon? If this means that legends like Articuno and Moltres are banned, then I don't personally see why we should implement this tier.
Also, are those the actual tier lists, or do they need to be upgraded? (for example, Azelf is listed as 'OU')
mathewxd Meowth Tier
Posts : 93 Rep : 0 Join date : 2012-02-23 Age : 27 Location : Orange Islands
yea legendaries as in articuno and those and i think its a great idea it makes people not so reliant on pokemon such as those and makes them use other pokemon its good for more creative team building in standard and overall its kinda fun not havin to worry about legendaries when battleing somebody
thats a lie u just must have trouble everyone has those pokes and abilities that give em trouble exspecialy when they are comboed just try to build a team to counter those if u run into them offten if not then dont worry about it
Maxedofhaxed Inspired
Posts : 122 Rep : 6 Join date : 2012-02-23 Age : 26
Subject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:17 am
When are we doing the next tier vote? I just looked at the lists and have a few thoughts:
Kyurem-B from Ubers to Standard - Smogon actually has it as OU, so they must be right...right? Kidding aside, I see where they are coming from. Kyurem-B has many common weaknesses, doesn't have the best physical movepool to actually use its base 170 attack (really, it only has Outrage, Dragon Claw, and Fusion Bolt, and maybe Freeze Shock), and it doesn't have the highest speed compared to other threats. Raikou from Standard to Inspired - I just don't think that Raikou is a 'standard' Pokemon. Sure, it has the good special attack and speed, but it doesn't have great defenses, and no reliable recovery moves. It did get Aura Sphere recently, but it can only use that with a Rash nature, which limits its effectiveness. Venusaur from Standard to Inspired - Venusaur is a good Sun sweeper. However, in standard, it most is only going to be used on Sun teams. Because of Sun arguably being the third most common weather condition (behind Rain and Sand), and because Venusaur not being as useful outside of Sun, Vensaur isn't going to see too much usage.
diogofrp Alphabet Soup Tier
Posts : 203 Rep : 4 Join date : 2013-03-11
Subject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:39 am
That Venusaur thing i don't really agree
Kyurem,yes
And Raikou,the arguments are good,but why would you only use Aura Sphere with a Rash Nature?It depends on Sp.Atk so his high Sp.Atk can do it
Steel, our tiers are not based on usage, they are based on viability. And Venu is incredibly viable in sun. Saying that it should go down a tier because of chlorophyll is like saying Ninetails and Politoad should go down because people only use them for drizzle and drought. The abilities make them viable.
Last edited by Frost on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Raikou may not be very viable in standard, but sub calm mind Raikou can be very difficult to stop in inspired. Still, I'm not experienced in the tier, so I can't really say for sure. If we voted I would likely abstain on this one.
As for Kyurem, I would prefer it stayed uber. Smogon's primary reason for unbanning it is essentially "cuz ferrothorn." Yes it doesn't have STAB or the best coverage, but if you're without a steel type you can be in serious trouble against it. I don't know if it's uber material, but I do think it's too much for standard. Still, while I don't agree with it, I don't think it would be the absolute end of the world if it was voted down.
Invalid Zygarde Tier
Posts : 767 Rep : 77 Join date : 2011-12-02 Age : 33 Location : Invalid Location
Subject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:10 am
Being a fanboy implies that you agree with everything that Smogon says...becaue Smogon said it. I don't agree with everything that Smogon says, but I do see where they're coming from for Kyurem-B. For Raikou and Venusaur, those were just my individual thoughts; not necessarily 'Smogon' thoughts.
Anyway, this is getting a little off-topic (or at least near that point). Lets keep the discussion to tiers in this particualr thread.
diogofrp Alphabet Soup Tier
Posts : 203 Rep : 4 Join date : 2013-03-11
Subject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:58 am
@Steel - If you can only get Rash Natured Raikou with Aura Sphere...we can try testing what's his limits. Even though i think lowering him is too much just cause he isn't at the top
Invalid Zygarde Tier
Posts : 767 Rep : 77 Join date : 2011-12-02 Age : 33 Location : Invalid Location
Guys, Raikou was erroneously Inspired in the past. The result was Raikou destroying everything. And Steel, we've had the 1 tier difference rule for every tier vote, why are you talking about nominating a Pokemon down 2 tiers?
Destruction starts at 4:40
This thread was never for tier change discussions but since it's hijacked now, w/e.
Guys, Raikou was erroneously Inspired in the past. The result was Raikou destroying everything. And Steel, we've had the 1 tier difference rule for every tier vote, why are you talking about nominating a Pokemon down 2 tiers?
Sorry, my mistake, I meant Raikou from standard to creative, not standard to inspired. Also, we can make a 'tier discussion thread' and sticky it to have these discussions, if that is what is desired.
Invalid Zygarde Tier
Posts : 767 Rep : 77 Join date : 2011-12-02 Age : 33 Location : Invalid Location
Here is a rehashing of some things I said earlier:
Kyurem-B from Ubers to Standard - Smogon actually has it as OU, so they must be right...right? Kidding aside, I see where they are coming from. Kyurem-B has many common weaknesses, which include weaknesses to common attacking types lke Fighting, Rock, Steel, and Dragon. It also doesn't have the best physical movepool to actually use its base 170 attack, as it really only has Outrage, Dragon Claw, and Fusion Bolt, and maybe Freeze Shock to use as physical moves. Other factors also limit Kyurem-B's effectiveness, such as its average base speed, and its weakness to Stealth Rock.
Raikou from Standard to Creative - I just don't think that Raikou is a 'standard' Pokemon. Sure, it has the good special attack and speed, but it doesn't have great defenses, and no reliable recovery moves. It did get Aura Sphere recently, but it can only use that with a Rash nature, which limits its effectiveness. Raikou can have a max of 329 speed with the Rash nature, which isn't always fast enough against some of the faster sweepers in standard.
kingtrace Tesla
Posts : 441 Rep : 28 Join date : 2012-02-23 Age : 2022 Location : Flurry League
If you don't think Raikou belongs in Standard, you obviously haven't seen Invalid use it. It serves an incredible niche as an Electric type calm mind user, and if you eschew Aura Sphere you can also use Volt Absorb, which is an amazing ability that can force out many Pokemon while healing Raikou some of it's HP. It's a fast subber with access to Calm Mind and Thunder. There should be no argument it's standard.
As for Kyurem-B, I'm currently undecided, suffice to say I worry about unleashing a Pokemon that can 2HKO Scizor with resisted Outrage and which Scizor fails to OHKO without rocks up.
Another thought: Could the Genesect forms (when it holds the Techno Drive, Chill Drive, etc) be moved down to the creative tier? Obviously, Genesect is a powerful threat, and it would still be a threat in that tier. However, you would know what item it is holding, and know that it is not holding a choice scarf or anything else other than the drives (the douse drive makes the most sense). Also, its base speed is only 99, meaning that certain Pokemon like Victini, Celebi, and Staraptor will always outspeed it. I realize that this Genesect may still be powerful for creative (especally since it can use Flame Charge to boost its speed), but we're never going to use the Techno Drive forms of Genesect in standard, so why not use them someplace else?
