Scald and Shadow Ball serve as STAB, simple enough. Will-O-Wisp is used to lower the adversary's atk, since my set is Sp.Defensive so I can't take too many phy hits. Recover is for healing or for when I've noticed a Life Orb on my adversary that cannot 2HKO me so I take my chance to Recover while he wastes life.
It's basically my "wall" for everything that doesn't eat it in less then 3 hits to allow me to recover.
A Pokémon that is fast and has good Sp.Atk, what else could I ask for?Saves me on various situations, It can deal with almost any situation it faces if the opponent hasn't undergone any gain on Def,Sp.Def or Speed to fck with it xD
It's my sweeper
SteelChacal (Lucario) @ Life Orb Trait: Justified Shiny: Yes EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Close Combat - ExtremeSpeed - Bullet Punch
A standard swords dance Lucario. Not much to say about it If It can get Swords dance on, it can sweep quite well
I have a team that's basically the same except it swaps Lucario for Scizor.
Why?Because Lucario wasn't doing that great for me so I tried Scizor who can get a STAB + Technician from Bullet Punch instead of just depending on STAB + Swords Dance. Can setup just as well, Pursuit is to trap Ghost types that I think can't take a hit and will run away and Bug Bite is just for STAB.
All moves take advantage of Technician, which is pretty good.
Calm Mind Latias with a bulky EVs, I choose Thunderbolt over Surf because I liked it more I didn't want to put Substitute and run mono-dragon cause then Steel types would stop me easily.
Landorus. A fcking awesome attacker. Almost never fails to get the job done, and HP Ice just eats away anything that's weak x4 to it, so basically, other Landorus and Gliscors and some Dragons.
WEVILE (Weavile) @ Life Orb Trait: Pickpocket -> Pressure Shiny: Yes EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Ice Shard - Ice Punch - Night Slash - Low Kick
Weavile, the fastest thing I know in BS. I went thinking about Scarfing or not Scarfing and went with Life orb, it's the best option since it's not exactly a Pokémon that can take hits. I run Ice Shard for Extreme Speed Dragonites or near death Cloysters and Ice Punch for targets that might take a bit more to take down.
Last edited by diogofrp on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:45 pm; edited 5 times in total
Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:30 am
Ok, a few things:
First, this team isn't too bad, but it could be better. Here are my thoughts:
Jellicent - Since you have Scald and Will-o-Wisp, you might want to consider either replacing Will-o-Wisp with Toxic or replacing Scald with Surf. Also, you could try out Ice Beam over Shadow Ball, as Ice Beam does hit certain Pokemon (like Salamence, Gliscor, and Haxorus) hard.
Alakazam - Don't run Psychic and Psyshock on the same set, as it just doesn't make much sense. I would replace one of those moves with hidden Power fire.
Scizor - If you do run a life orb set on Scizor, I would run Superpower over Pursuit. Without Supepower, Scizor will have a hard time against the many Steel-typed Pokemon out there.
Latias - I would use Surf instead of Thunderbolt, as Surf + Dragon Pulse has nearly unresisted coverage, meaning that at least one of those moves will hit the opposing Pokemon for neutral damage.
Weavile - I would change its nature to Inner Focus, because at least that may help you in some battles, whereas Pickpocket won't help you at all.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:25 pm
I agree with everything steel said, except for running Toxic. Scald/Will-O-Wisp is a great moveset, personally, and I think it's certainly worth running over Toxic. Your call on that, though.
Second, Low Kick on Weavile is great and everything, but I usually run Brick Break for dependability. Again, it's really a matter of preference.
Also, you really have to be more descriptive. "This is for sweeping." isn't a very good description. I need to know what these pokemon do, what they don't do, why you're running the moves you are, what this team is weak to, what it excels at, all in all just bulk it out.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:26 pm
steel dragons wrote:
Ok, a few things:
First, this team isn't too bad, but it could be better. Here are my thoughts:
Jellicent - Since you have Scald and Will-o-Wisp, you might want to consider either replacing Will-o-Wisp with Toxic or replacing Scald with Surf. Also, you could try out Ice Beam over Shadow Ball, as Ice Beam does hit certain Pokemon (like Salamence, Gliscor, and Haxorus) hard.
The Scald + Will-O-Wisp thing is that sometimes I get taunted and Scald may still make a dent with fire.
The Toxic thing, meh, I really prefer Burn, because like you saw with Cloyster, It did actually help me,btw the Rock Blast thing, If you see it in the match, I recover from Rock Blast once before he does Icicle Spear, and even then,I prefer burning, because with Toxic, they'll might bring Ferrothorn in or something like that(A Grass type, which most of it are /Poison and Ferro is /Steel, making them immune to it) + Burn has the advantage of lowering the attack of my opponent, which I is awfully good for stuff like Breloom, Lucario or Scizor(Of which, the latter 2 are immune to poisoning and Breloom might have Poison Heal) and no one would bring a Flareon or a Conkeldurr on a Jellicent....
steel dragons wrote:
Alakazam - Don't run Psychic and Psyshock on the same set, as it just doesn't make much sense. I would replace one of those moves with hidden Power fire.
Scizor - If you do run a life orb set on Scizor, I would run Superpower over Pursuit. Without Supepower, Scizor will have a hard time against the many Steel-typed Pokemon out there.
Latias - I would use Surf instead of Thunderbolt, as Surf + Dragon Pulse has nearly unresisted coverage, meaning that at least one of those moves will hit the opposing Pokemon for neutral damage.
Weavile - I would change its nature to Inner Focus, because at least that may help you in some battles, whereas Pickpocket won't help you at all.
Psychic deals with most stuff, Psyshock deals with Blissey/Chansey or other special walls. I have really given thought over Hidden Power Fire, which would be pretty nice for Ferro or Forre. But I still feel kinda meh about taking it off, because earlier today I killed 2 Chanseys with it xD
Scizor is not meant to fight other Steel types, especially in this tier, what would it face?Lucario?Heatran?Pursuit is increased by Technician and can help me catch Ghost/Psychic types off guard if they try to run away
Latias had Surf before, I've really been discussing with myself(NotCrazyIAssure) and I keep "toying" with it, because sometimes Thunderbolt gives me Paralyz, but seriously, before writting this, I was sure that Ferrothorn resisted water by 4x, but it's the same as with Electric(2x), so Idk, might change it.
Weavile...change his nature to Inner Focus?What does that mean?:/
Pickpocket was basically for nothing, because between Pressure or Pickpocket, I was like "LOL"
Btw, nothing to say about Lucario?xD
kingtrace wrote:
I agree with everything steel said, except for running Toxic. Scald/Will-O-Wisp is a great moveset, personally, and I think it's certainly worth running over Toxic. Your call on that, though.
Second, Low Kick on Weavile is great and everything, but I usually run Brick Break for dependability. Again, it's really a matter of preference.
Also, you really have to be more descriptive. "This is for sweeping." isn't a very good description. I need to know what these pokemon do, what they don't do, why you're running the moves you are, what this team is weak to, what it excels at, all in all just bulk it out.
I will stay with it, hasn't failed me so far, + fcked a Sableye with it on Smogon by random burn + crit xD
Usually Low Kick is good because most Pokémon I've seemed to have faced are "fat", yesterday I fought a Snorlax, was very cool to see a 1HKO x)
Ferrothorn is kinda heavy and it also works good on him.
The descriptions, as I said, it's the first time i've done this, so I will get better in time, the Lucario thing is basically just a Swords Dance + Priority Move thing, with Close Combat to deal with steel types, I was very undecided about what moves to give it
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:28 pm
My only criticism: DO NOT USE SHADOW BALL ON JELLICENT. It doesn't even always ohko Gengar of all things with those EV's. Do what Steel said and replace with either Taunt or Ice Beam.
Don't waste a moveslot for a 26% chance. It isn't worth it, and shadow ball on it is just bad.
Also regarding WoW and Scald, personally I agree with Steel on that one. However, Kingtrace and Invalid are extremely adamant about running scald and WoW together, as are many other people, so you can take that as you will.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:51 pm
I don't use Shadow Ball on Gengar, unless Ik he has a water absorber on his team.
Taunt... I don't wanna run mono-water, so I might try Ice Beam and then give a feedback on that
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:00 pm
Gengar was an example of how bad Jellicent's shadow ball is. The point is Gengar is frailer than glass. If it can't KO Gengar, it pretty much isn't going to do a thing to anything else.
Your team has no taunt support at all. Jellicent is the best candidate to put it on. As for the mono water thing, Jelly is in no way offensive It's a very defensive poke. It's meant to tank hits and perform certain support tasks like taunting or burning things for the rest of the team. So no, mono water does not matter, especially if you're running WoW or Toxic, because then you can stall things to death. If you're depending on Jellicent for offense, you might be doin it wrong. Yes it can provide it as a bonus, but you should not NEED it to be offensive. It's weak, and it will fall short every time in that department. Plus you have Alakazam with Shadow Ball and Latias with Surf. Your team does not need anymore Water/Ghost coverage, and if it did Jellicent is not the best provider of it just because it gets STAB.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:14 pm
The Acid Armor set is kinda meh, I have to expect Scald to burn, else I'm just waiting for him to get a crit and fck me :/
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:40 pm
What are the real advantages of running Taunt?Most stuff i've seen are much faster then Jellicent or usually taunt me first
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:54 pm
So give it some speed EV's. Smogon has some weird EV's specifically designed for it or some crap. Check there if you want.
Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:29 am
Ok, I'm going to make a correction to my origonal post. Earlier, I stated that you should add hidden power fire to Alakazam and get rid of either Alakazam's Psyshock or Psychic. Now, I suggest replacing Alakazam's Psychic / Psyshock with hidden power ice.
Lets look at some of the targets that HP Fire would be aimed at:
Ferrothorn - is still hit hard, and super-effectively, by focus blast Forretress - doesn't have the best special defense, so it is hit moderately hard by focus blast. Also, Forretress' sturdy ability would alow it to survive HP fire anyway at full health. Scizor - will kill you anyway with Bullet Punch. Metagross - Focus Blast has 120 base pwoer against Metagross, whereas a super-effective HP Fire has only 140 base power against Metagross. That is not much of a difference.
Also, HP Ice enables Alakazam to hit certain foes, in particular Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence. HP Ice would defnitely KO Gliscor, and would be Alakazam's best bet at 1HKOing Dragonite (probably with some prior damage though).
Also, Replace Weavile's Pickpocket with Pressure, because Pickpocket does nothing for Weavile, whereas Pressure at least depletes PP of moves that hit Weavile.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:21 am
@Frost: The utility counter set has speed, but it's kinda meh, just a question, do you actually use taunt very often?I'm thinking of replacing it with Ice Beam or going back to my original set Scald/WoW/Recover/ with the last slot being a "new" Ice Beam
@Steel: Gliscor HP Ice is interesting, but my Alakazam's versatility comes from having both Psy's to try to HKO any threat that's more "resisting" of one then the other.
Like Chansey:
Max Def/Max HP with + Def Chansey(Eviolite):
Damage: 231 - 274 of 704 HP 32% - 38% Psyshock uses Chansey's Defense stat. Alakazam got STAB on Psyshock Alakazam's Life Orb increased damage. Chansey's Eviolite raised its Special Defense. 252SpAtk Life Orb Alakazam (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Chansey (+Def): 32% - 38% (231 - 274 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Max Hp/0 Def + Eviolite:
Damage: 595 - 703 of 704 HP 84% - 99% Psyshock uses Chansey's Defense stat. Alakazam got STAB on Psyshock Alakazam's Life Orb increased damage. Chansey's Eviolite raised its Special Defense. 252SpAtk Life Orb Alakazam (Neutral) Psyshock vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Chansey (Neutral): 84% - 99% (595 - 703 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Chansey can't switch in on this. I can switch to Scizor or Lucario thought, but idk.
Running HP Ice looks like a fun idea, and this is one of the ocasions I wish there were 5 moveslots D:
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:24 am
Jelli updated to a "trial state"
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:19 am
Ignore the stupidity of my brother and try to focus on Scalds + Resistance
I got get some burns, but for example, Wailord took like 5 hits and never burned
I did resist a Heracross STAB Crit w/ resist, in which Acid Armor basically kept me alive lol
I just dunno if I can depend on Scald burns forever :S
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:33 pm
The video is set to private, so it's unwatchable. I personally do not run Taunt on my jellicent because it has teammates that can taunt. Yours however does not. You don't NEED to run taunt on a team, but you might run into problems if you don't. Still, a lot of people don't run it as far as I know, and I have teams without taunt support as well. Use your best judgement.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:57 pm
Vídeo is fixed.
Btw, with taunt, the only thing i've been able to "out taunt" are opponent jellicents lol
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:14 pm
That's because you don't have speed invested. If you don't want to do that, don't use taunt.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:16 pm
I think maybe this team is too offensive... I'm practically depending on speed, so maybe I should get another wall :/
Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:33 pm
diogofrp wrote:
I think maybe this team is too offensive... I'm practically depending on speed, so maybe I should get another wall :/
Opinions?
I basically agree with you here. However, you don't necessarily need to have 'walls' on your team to make the team more defensive. You can include Pokemon that can take some hits, yet are offensive at the same time. For example, the normal set for Rotom-W is bulky in some ways, but can still dish out good amounts of damage..
I would suggest one of two things for you:
1. Get entry hazards. This might mean changing your team around a little bit, but it could really help your team to function better. The residual damage that the haards cause can add up, and it can help your more fragile sweepers (Weavile and Alakazam) get some more KOs. If Alakazam and Weavile don't KO the opposing Pokemon, then Alakazam / Weavile will probably take a huge amount of damage. Having those entry hzards can help them get some more KOs. You could also replace Alakazam with Magic Bounce Espeon, as Magic Bounce in general can be very helpful, and Espeon has many Alakazam-like qualities.
2. Replace Alakazam / Weavile with a more bulky alternative. What I mean is that you could replace alakazam / Weavile with a more bulky, yet effective, alternative. For example, you could replace Alakazam with something like either Heatran or Serperior, which are both bulkier, yet effective, Pokemon.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:08 pm
Serperior or Heatran comparing to Alakazam?
Alakazam is for it's speed, which none of those has, and Ground attacks are very common and can easily eat Heatran, while Serperior is weak to many types
Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:10 pm
diogofrp wrote:
Serperior or Heatran comparing to Alakazam?
Alakazam is for it's speed, which none of those has, and Ground attacks are very common and can easily eat Heatran, while Serperior is weak to many types
Alakazam also dies to just about any strong attack though. I was also just giving examples of Pokemon that are strong, and that can take a few attacks and not be KOed. It doesn't mean that you have to use either Heatran or Serperior, but if you go that route, you should use a Pokemon like one of those two.
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Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:37 am
I understand, anyways, I just want a physical wall to replace someone on my team, not make a full new one, since I have already been working on one myself
Subject: Re: Attempt at team making, By Diogo Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:16 am
First, can you change the descriptions for the Pokemon please? Some of the descriptions don't match what is there.
Also, are you using Lucario or Scizor for this team? It would be good to know wht you're usng here.
Anyway, if you want a physical wall, I have a few suggestions:
Hippwodon: It would be a physical wall, it could set up those floating rocks that we all know about, and it could even afford to Slack Off once in a while (in other words, it gets slack off for recovery). It does bring Sandstorm though, which could be good or bad at times. Sandstorm would probably hurt Weavile the most, so I would probably put Hippwodon in over Weavile. If you opt to go this route, I would also suggest changing Landorus-T into the regular Landorus, as its Sand Force-boosted Earthquakes (in sandy weather of course) are actually stronger than Landorus-T's Earthquakes. Recommended Changes for Hippwodon: Hippwodon replacing Weavile, and Landorus replacing Landorus-T.
Conkeldurr: It may not solely be a physical wall, but it has plenty of physical bulk. It has plenty of things going for it though. It has a great move selection, as it can use Bulk Up to bolster its attack and defense, use Drain Punch to hit foes hard and recover some HP, use Mach Punch for a priority move, and use oher good coverage moves like Ice Punch, Payback, and Rock Slide to hit the foes that don't get hit hard by fighting moves. Also, unlike many Pokemon, some status conditions actually make Conkeldurr stronger, because of its Guts ability. In particular, Burns don't halve Conkeldurr's attack, so it doesn't have to worry much about the Scalds and Will-o-Wisps floating around. If you put Conkeldurr on the team, I would suggest replacing Alakazam with Conkeldurr, as you currently have three Pokemon weak to Ghost / Dark moves. Recommended Changes for Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr replacing Alakazam.
