April Tier Voting Discussions

This is the official discussion area for the Tier voting and nominations of the month of April. Nothing you say here has any bearing on the voting or nomination process, this only exists to share your thoughts with other members to try to weasel out some votes or to see the reasoning of other people.

One thing I really want to bring to the table is Zoroark. I feel that because of our no preview only policy it can do very well in standard. It may take some effort, but I really do think that if people try they could make excellent use of its ability.

I also think Slowbro should be moved down to Creative. I just don't think it's up to snuff in Standard anymore. And there's things like Mismagius and Honchkrow to keep it in check. It wouldn't be too much for Creative to handle, and in Standard it's underwhelming.

Sigilyph to Inspired
Gallade to Inspired
Roserade to Inspired
Milotic to Inspired
Froslass to Inspired
Umbreon to Inspired
Porygon2 to Inspired

The rest is just cleaning up for me. All of those things are way too viable to be down in Tesla.

I disagree on Froslass, I've used it on my inspired team for a while because I was too lazy to replace it, but it really has a hard time even in Inspired. As a sweeper, it has 110 speed and 80 offenses with STAB and little else. As a support Pokemon it has 70 in every defensive stat, Spikes, Thunder Wave, and Destiny Bond, Confuse Ray, and Rain Dance. It's lackluster in basically every area, There's a very short list of Inspired Pokemon Froslass can even stay in on:

Gligar, Sceptile, and Uxie always.

Scyther, Medicham, Lilligant, and potentially Braviary if offensive.

Braviary and potentially Golurk if it has Life Orb.

Clefable, Munchlax, Venomoth, and Miltank if it's a support set.

So as far as I can tell, unless you're relying on insane hax (parafusion) Froslass is only going to be able to deal with 8 Pokemon in the tier maximum

Why is Excadrill not in any tier list?

https://breakdown.forumotion.com/t144-5th-gen-tiers

Is says only Excadrill with Sand Rush is forbidden,but actually,all Excadrill are

Here are my votes, and here is why:

Stoutland to Standard - I feel that it is viable in Standard. It obviously should only be used in the sane, Sand, but it does well in sand. It has the defenses to survive some weaker attacks, and it only has a weakness to fighting attacks. Stoutland also has access to moves that give it great coverage (moves like Frustration, Superpower, Crunch, Wild Charge, and Ice Fang. It's main flaw is that it's power simply isn't the greatest at times, but I feel that it is still viable in standard.

Zoroark to Standard - As Frost said, since we use the 'no preview' rule, Zoroark can do well in standard because of its surprise factor. It also has great special attack, above average speed and attack, and decent moves.

Kyurem-B to Standard - This is more of a 'lets see how it goes' vote. Sure, Kyurem-B has the awesome physical attack stat, as well as above average stats in other areas as well. However, it's flaws are numerous. It has common weaknesses to types like Fighting, Steel, Dragon, and Rock, and obviously, it has a weakness to Stealth Rock.

Genesect Drive forms to Creative - I feel that the Genesect forms belong in Creative. Yes, Genesect is a strong Pokemon, but the Gensect forms are limited by the Drives that they hold. Also, Genesect cannot possibly cover every threat with only four moves, especially if one of those moves is Rock Polish.

Zapdos to Creative - I just feel that Zapdos is underwhelming in standard, and should be moved down to creative.

Slowbro to Creative - See Zapdos

Lilligant to Creative - I feel that Lilligant could do well in Creative. With Quiver Dance, Petal Dance, No Tempo, and Sleep Powder, Lilligant could be dificult to stop.

Stoutland even with now that average power,when Banded and during a Sandstorm, he can be a very strong foe to face an HKO many Pokémon with STAB Return

Mostly Ghosts,Rock or Steel can actually "face him"

He can still take Mach Punchs and shit so he isn't really that awesome.

Lilligant- "Just because Invalid uses it" clause. That shit is easy to stop, it's not my fault no one does it. Lilligant can't touch Boufallant, Magmortar, Moltres, Munchlax, Rotom-F. Rotom-C, Typhlosion, Vulpix, or Yanmega. And Venomoth walls it and outclasses it at the same time.

In sun none of those things are really true ya know. I've used it before too >.>. Still, there really isn't any in creative so I suppose that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Frost wrote:

In sun none of those things are really true ya know. I've used it before too >.>. Still, there really isn't any in creative so I suppose that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Letting her have sun is stupid xD

If anything, when people see the sun, they either take advantage themselves or change the weather

Invalid, why Cloyster to ubers?It's not really that good...

Cloyster is too easy. You send it in after something dies, use Shell Smash, and if they don't have priority or their check is weakened their whole team dies.

Frost the only things on my list that sun helps it deal with are Venomoth, Yanmega, and Rotom-C.

Sun does exactly for her what it does for venu. It allows her to put things to sleep and setup.

She could already do that without sun.

Sun helps her do it better >.>

Honestly Smogon is wrong about sun. Own Tempo with Petal Dance is strong enough that she would need to set up 2 Quiver Dances to make Giga Drain as good as it. Solar Beam is unreliable, even in Creative.

Havinfun85 wrote:

Jirachi to Standard.
Multiscale Dragonite to Standard

Don't think that is happening, at least not this time.

Also, on Lilligant, the 120 base power of Petal Dance does indeed justify the use of Own Tempo over Chlorophyll, at least in my view. Sun does these things for Lilligant:

-It makes Lilligant really vulnerable to Fire-typed moves, meaning that it probably can't survive most fire attacks even with some Quiver Dance boosts.
-It powers up Lilligant's (possible) Hidden Power Fire, which could help at times. However, Lilligant doesn't always run Hidden Power Fire.
-It could double Lilligant's speed, which obviously helps. However, Lilligant needs the sun to have this doubled speed, and Lilligant isn't as good of a Sun sweeper as, say, something like Victreebel and Sawsbuck.

Thus, in my view, Lilligant seems to be more of a stand-alone sweeper which doesn't really need Sun to function. Having doubled speed with Chlorophyll could mean fast Sleep Powders, which defnitely could help at times, but having No Tempo means having Petal Dance (a 120 base power, 100% accurate move) without the confusion side-effect. Petal Dance easily is Lilligant's best move in this case, so I would most lkely use No Tempo over Chlorophyll as its ability.

Breakdown (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Water Pulse

........ The Challenge is to name 3 counters or checks to this Pokemon, I'll spoil it for you, there are only 2 Counters and 0 Checks, Water Absorb Quagsire and Physical Gastrodon. Any other check or counter will have to deal with either the 40% chance to be confused, the 60% chance to be paralyzed or both. As an Uber Pokemon, this Jirachi is expected to be on a rain team and have Stealth Rock support. This rules out Ninetales, Tyranitar, Hippowdown, Abomasnow, and Garchomp as checks even without the chance to be haxed since when they force jirachi out, Jirachi only loses 12% health after leftovers recovery while they lost a minimum of 30% each. Anything else someone intends to break a sub with can't survive Jirachi's hits even that well, and anything that lives them better (Ferrothorn, Latias, and other grass types) are set up fodder for Jirachi since they are unable to break it's Substitute.
........ The final thing notable to address is the combination of Ninetales and Venusaur, this comes from Havinfun. Here's what is likely to happen is you try to use Ninetales and Venusaur together to put Venusaur in a position to sweep an entire team while Jirachi is out. Turn X, Jirachi is out against whatever (say ferrothorn). Jirachi sets up a Substitute while Ferrothorn switches into Ninetales, Ninetales takes 25% from Stealth Rock. Turn X+1, Jirachi safely uses Water Pulse from behind a Substitute while Venusaur comes in, Venusaur takes 12.5% from Stealth Rocks. Turn X+2 Jirachi switches to Politoed, Venusaur must either predict Politoed, switch out, or use HP fire and do little damage. Until now this also ignored the possibility that Venusaur would get confused on the switch and be forced out. Conclusion Ninetales and Venusaur do not counter Politoed and Jirachi.

You could've put this on the server wall or something :/

Didn't really notice it happen

Unoffical count as of right now:
(the numbers signify the votes in the following order: ('change' votes) - ('keep' votes) - ('abstain' votes)

Cloyster to Ubers - (2 - 4 - 0)

Cresselia to Standard - (5 - 0 - 1)
Kyurem-B to Standard - (3 - 2 - 1)
Stoutland to Standard - (4 - 0 - 2)
Zoroark to Standard - (6 - 0 - 0)

Genesect Drive Forms to Creative - (5 - 0 - 1)
Gyarados to Creative - (2 - 4 - 0)
Lilligant to Creative - (2 - 3 - 1)
Slowbro to Creative - (5 - 1 - 0)

Arcanine to Inspired - (4 - 1 - 1)
Ditto to Inspired - (3 - 0 - 3)
Excadrill to Inspired - (6 - 0 - 0)
Froslass to Inspired - (4 - 2 - 0)
Gallade to Inspired - (5 - 1 - 0)
Milotic to Inspired - (5 - 1 - 0)
Porygon2 to Inspired - (5 - 1 - 0)
Roserade to Inspired - (6 - 0 - 0)
Sigilyph to Inspired - (6 - 0 - 0)
Tangrowth to Inspired - (5 - 1 - 0)
Umbreon to Inspired - (5 - 1 - 0)

It is safe to say that Zoroark, Excadrill, Roserade, and Sigilyph will all be headed to new tiers soon.

Diogo and Steel, your posts were moved from the Official Voting Thread (you know, the one for voting) to the discussion thread, where we discuss the votes.

Steel, I'm going to make this clear to you. I feel like your tally is very silly and very misplaced, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why you thought it was a good idea to put a vote count in the middle of the voting thread when there are still six days left to decide.

You should really think about this before you do this again. Auth members are examples to the community, they take our actions to mean something. Do you know what they take "A tally that also includes the words 'basically official at this point'" to mean? Vote over. With something like this in there I'd be shocked to get more votes, because here's an auth team member saying "Your votes for some pokemon don't matter, so it's basically over."

Seriously, DO NOT do that again.

Quote :

Steel, I'm going to make this clear to you. I feel like your tally is very silly and very misplaced, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why you thought it was a good idea to put a vote count in the middle of the voting thread when there are still six days left to decide.

You should really think about this before you do this again. Auth members are examples to the community, they take our actions to mean something. Do you know what they take "A tally that also includes the words 'basically official at this point'" to mean? Vote over. With something like this in there I'd be shocked to get more votes, because here's an auth team member saying "Your votes for some pokemon don't matter, so it's basically over."

Ok, point taken. We all make mistakes once in a while.

Anyway, for that particular CM Jirachi (stated by Invalid), I agree, between the set-up and the hax, it can be very difficult to stop. The only knock against it is that it can't just keep setting up Subs, amd it doesn't have a healing move, so it is possible to revenge-kill it (with Jirachi taking prior damage, of course). Yeah...this should stay in Ubers

Guys, I know it's really really really really really late for this, but Kyogre seriously needs to be demoted to Tesla. And if you don't believe me, here's proof!

http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/breakdown-customgame3843

Kyogre to Tesla
Terrakion to Ubers

As long as we don't allow Water Gun on Terrakion I don't think it will be too broken in Ubers.