HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsYoutubeRegisterLog in

Photobucket
Pokemon Showdown!
Support Breakdown by clicking below


Share | 
 

 Tier Discussion Thread

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
kingtrace
Tesla
Tesla
avatar

Posts : 441
Rep : 28
Join date : 2012-02-23
Age : 2016
Location : Flurry League

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:01 am

No, I refuse to take that course of action on principal.

I don't like the idea of banning moves to keep a Pokemon out of Ubers, because that defeats the purpose of tiering all together.

Either we ban the Swagger + Prankster combo (I don't want to do this) or ban Klefki. I'm not getting into the shifty gray area of banning Pokemon Move Combos.

_________________
My sweet badges


Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:24 pm

I think that my solution would be to ban Klefki + Prankster. We did something similar with Blaziken + Speed Boost and certain Pokémon + Sand Veil / Snow Cloak, and this way we don't have to ban Klefki altogether. You can even get Magician Klefki in-game (from a horde), so there wouldn't be any legality issues there.

Kingtrace wrote:
Mega-Nette seems to be a waste of a Mega slot, and even if you are using it, I don't see you wasting your time using Foul Play when you could be having fun doing something else, not quite sure yet.
Mega Banette's physical movepool really stinks (moves like Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, and Return are its best options), so I could possibly see the "I've got Swag" strategy becoming common on Mega-Banette. No one in their right minds should be using Mega Banette though, unless its in the lower tiers where it may be allowed. (Mega Banette does have decent priority moves, along with base 165 attack, so there is that...)

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kingtrace
Tesla
Tesla
avatar

Posts : 441
Rep : 28
Join date : 2012-02-23
Age : 2016
Location : Flurry League

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:24 pm

I agree with Steel. The best solution is to ban Klefki + Prankster, were it to come to that point.

_________________
My sweet badges


Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:35 pm

What do you all think about our new 6th gen tiers? Here are some of my thoughts:

I think that at least 3/4 of the 6th generation Pokémon will be moved down, as they just aren't standard material (Oh no, its a Furfrou...right...). The only Pokémon that I would possibly consider to be standard material are Aegislash, Chesnaught, Diggersby, Doublade, Goodra, Greninja, Noivern, and Tyrantrum. Note that I said 'possibly', meaning that I wouldn't be surprised if some if these Pokémon get sent down as well.

We should ban the combo of Blaziken + Speed Boost, and not just Blaziken itself. I'm not sure why we nominated all of Blaziken in the first place, as we also banned Prankster Klefki and Gale Wings Talonflame.

We should also consider moving down Stoutland and Venusaur, as they are inherently less useful now that perma-weather is no more. Tornadus should also be considered her as well; I'm just not sure that it should be moved down though.

I also think that we should consider having a general rule that Mega Stones should be in or above the tier that the corresponding Pokémon is in, as it just makes logical sense.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:50 pm

Ok, I have updated the tiers page with the recent changes from the last vote. If I have missed anything, please let me know.

Also, I think that its odd that we have the combo of Talonflame + Gale Wings allowed for standard, yet we have Talonflame itself in Creative. I think that we should just have Talonflame in standard, as I don't think that many people will use Gale Wing-less Talonflame in Creative anyway.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:17 pm

Title of post: Mega Lucario is overpowered

Body of text post: Mega Lucario is overpowered. He is too fast, his stats are too good, and Adaptability makes his Close Combat one of the most powerful moves in the game.

Here is a comprehensive list of counters to PHYSICAL ONLY Mega Lucario: (Will edit when others are found)

Physically defensive Sableye might actually be one, but he gets fucking demolished by special set



Here is a list of checks to Mega Lucario that he can OHKO or 2HKO at +2 by altering one move of his standard moveset (Others will be added):

Prankster T-Wave Thundurus gets rekt by Ice Punch
Gliscor gets rekt by Ice Punch




I'd like Mega Lucario to be gone as soon as possible. I was under the impression that it was indeed gone, but seeing as that is not the case, I'd like it gone now.

Thanks!


Last edited by Immanency on Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Maxedofhaxed
Inspired
Inspired
avatar

Posts : 122
Rep : 6
Join date : 2012-02-23
Age : 19

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:06 pm

Lucario doesn't get iron head. Only iron tail and flash cannon
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Invalid
Zygarde Tier
Zygarde Tier
avatar

Posts : 767
Rep : 77
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 26
Location : Invalid Location

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:04 pm

I didn't know that at all, I was actually telling him about how good I thought Iron Head was on it, lol.

_________________
It's more than a FEEEEEELLIIIINNNNNGGGG~~~~
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:42 am

Oh, shit, uhm. Hm. I totally thought.

That changes a little bit but actually not a ton.

_________________
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YkbrJjDgU0YRF6CZE3fzMBMAP6uuSTDlosouggcBYo/edit#gid=653909731 - A Spreadsheet for Pokemon and Berries and stuff. PM me your email, or submit a form (linked on landing page) to add stuff!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Frost
Sableye Tier
Sableye Tier
avatar

Posts : 359
Rep : 50
Join date : 2012-02-23

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:29 pm

Actually, phys defense Sableye is not even necessary (and actually ill-advised in my opinion). According to showdown's damage calc:

Calcs:
 

As you can see, your worst case scenario is Lucario getting a swords dance, which can still be dealt with and burned, provided you don't mind foddering the poor Sableye in the process. Either way, in the end the enemy Lucario is burned and for all intents and purposes much more easily dealt with.

_________________
Art by Orivexes
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:52 pm

The fact that you are forced to run Sableye as a counter means that Lucario is just a lil bit broken, and the fact that you have to fodder off the counter you're running to beat him right after you do.

Fucking fantastic counter you've got right there, and it really proves how fucking balanced Mega Lucario is.

_________________
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YkbrJjDgU0YRF6CZE3fzMBMAP6uuSTDlosouggcBYo/edit#gid=653909731 - A Spreadsheet for Pokemon and Berries and stuff. PM me your email, or submit a form (linked on landing page) to add stuff!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Frost
Sableye Tier
Sableye Tier
avatar

Posts : 359
Rep : 50
Join date : 2012-02-23

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Uh, calm down? I wasn't arguing for or against Mega Lucario, or even calling Sableye a counter. I just wanted to correct the misleading information you put on your own list calling it one.

And for the record, Sableye can barely deal with the special set at all. Flash canon 2HKO's, and unlike the physical variant Sableye cannot weaken it.

_________________
Art by Orivexes
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:30 pm

Sorry I completely misinterpreted what you were trying to say. I thought you were arguing for Sableye as a counter. I've changed my list, so that it only lists counters for physical Mega Lucario as well.

I'm mad because I really want this gone before the first clan season starts because I'll have to redesign all of my teams around beating Mega Lucario if indeed it is allowed.

_________________
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YkbrJjDgU0YRF6CZE3fzMBMAP6uuSTDlosouggcBYo/edit#gid=653909731 - A Spreadsheet for Pokemon and Berries and stuff. PM me your email, or submit a form (linked on landing page) to add stuff!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:27 pm

Ok, I have just updated the tiers page to include all of the recent tier changes.  Also, I have included a list of the relevant CANG tiers for the first time.  I also updated the CAP charts to include a section for the 'Creative' CAPs.

If I missed anything, especially with the CANG stuff, just let me know (or just change it if you are a mod).

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm

Ok, I have just updated the tiers page to include the most recent changes from the latest vote.

Also, Doublade, Darkrai, and Lucarionite are still in Standard in CANG. Those all should be looked at for possible tier changes in the next set of nominations.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:14 pm

I have just updated the tiers page from the last vote. If I have missed anything, please let me know (or change it yourself).

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:53 am

Hello everyone, I know its been a while, but I've just now updated the tiers from the vote a few months ago. If you see any issues with the tiers page, just let me or someone else know (or change it yourself if you can).

Also, can we put the Pokémon in alphabetical order on the next vote? It would just be a lot easier editing the tiers page if that were so.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:05 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaall right, I really hope that we can quickban Mega Mence when the server comes back online. It's just a bit too broken for my taste.

_________________
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YkbrJjDgU0YRF6CZE3fzMBMAP6uuSTDlosouggcBYo/edit#gid=653909731 - A Spreadsheet for Pokemon and Berries and stuff. PM me your email, or submit a form (linked on landing page) to add stuff!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:11 am

Immanency wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaall right, I really hope that we can quickban Mega Mence when the server comes back online. It's just a bit too broken for my taste.

Yeah, its Aerialite Return/Double Edge looks deadly, and it can actually perhaps survive Ice Shards due to base 130 defense and Intimidate.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Immanency
Meowth Tier
Meowth Tier
avatar

Posts : 77
Rep : 4
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Bellingham, WA

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:36 am

It can EV itself so that it can 2hko Skarmory after 2 DDs with Return, and also so that a 252 Modest Rotom-W volt switch won't break its sub while it DDs.

WITH THE SAME SET.

On surviving Ice Shards, LO Adamant Mamoswine can do around 60% with an Ice Shard?

_________________
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12YkbrJjDgU0YRF6CZE3fzMBMAP6uuSTDlosouggcBYo/edit#gid=653909731 - A Spreadsheet for Pokemon and Berries and stuff. PM me your email, or submit a form (linked on landing page) to add stuff!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Tue May 26, 2015 5:16 pm

With the release of ORAS, there are a lot of new mega stones, most of which are still untiered. These should be looked at in the next tier vote. These untiered stones are the following: Alakazite, Altarianite, Audinite, Beedrillite, Cameruptite, Diancite, Galladite, Garchompite, Glalitite, Gyaradosite, Latiasite, Latiosite, Lopunnite, Mewtwoite X, Mewtwoite Y, Pidgeotite, Sablenite, Sceptilite, Scizorite, Sharpedonite, Slowbronite, Steelixite, Swampertite, Tyranitarite.
Also, I think that Klefki and Serperior could possibly not be Standard tier material. Klefki has the great typing and ability, but average-to-poor stats and not the greatest selection of moves. Serperior's hidden power got nerfed (slightly), and it's main Stab attack is leaf storm, which is resisted by a lot of Pokémon in standard. Serperior does have decent stats, and a great ability (Contrary) that pairs with Leaf Storm well, so there is that. What are your thoughts on this?

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Invalid
Zygarde Tier
Zygarde Tier
avatar

Posts : 767
Rep : 77
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 26
Location : Invalid Location

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Tue May 26, 2015 10:10 pm

I was trolled very hard by a klefki recently in ORAS UU on PO Beta. But, this Klefki was using a hax moveset (thunderwave +  some bullshit, probably attract.) Since we have attract banned, the set is not usable. I think Klefki probably should drop while it has so many counters as it does now. If Mega-Sableye gets banned, I would say Klefki has a niche in Standard, being able to set up spikes, paralyze and potentially kill its 2 biggest remaining threats, Mega Diancie (Flash Cannon) and Espeon (Foul Play). Dual Screening is another area where Klefki shines, having access to both as priority moves and very good bulk and resistances. But, these jobs are not going to be desired by many teams, and it will be even less useful when your opponent can whip out Mega Sableye and start setting up.

All in all for Klefki, it doesn't do enough, and it's set up fodder for the biggest stall Pokemon out there.

Serperior I'd have to play to know, but I loved it in Gen 5, and it can legally have Dragon Pulse with Contrary now.

_________________
It's more than a FEEEEEELLIIIINNNNNGGGG~~~~
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MKSLAYER97
Creative
Creative


Posts : 49
Rep : 8
Join date : 2012-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Wed May 27, 2015 12:15 pm

Serperior I'm definitely going to say is good enough for standard. Leaf Storm at +2 still hits very hard, even when resisted, and it can cover most of the Pokemon that resist it with Hidden Power/Dragon Pulse anyway. For example:

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 45-55 (15 - 18.3%) -- possible 6HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 183-217 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Combine the two and you get a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock, meaning that even Mega-Altaria, a relatively bulky Pokemon that resists all of Serperior's moves, can't even switch in. The M-Alt HP is what I personally run, with max attack and enough speed to outspeed Adamant Excadrill.

Thoughts for other Pokemon that might be able to move down from standard: Espeon, Galvantula, Gastrodon, Infernape, Mandibuzz, Reuniclus, and Vaporeon.

Pokemon that I feel could move up to standard: Victini, Weavile, assuming Drizzle is unbanned in Creative then Politoed (seriously, Swift Swim + Drizzle is really hard to deal with), Breloom, Diggersby, Heracronite (how is this allowed in Creative?), possibly Heracross itself I'm not sure, and Staraptor.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
steel dragons
Arceus Tier
Arceus Tier
avatar

Posts : 539
Rep : 32
Join date : 2012-02-23
Location : Spearmint Pillar

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Wed May 27, 2015 4:28 pm

@MKSLAYER97: I can see your point about Serperior there. As for the Pokémon you mentioned that could move up or down, I definitely agree with some of them (at least). I think Galvantula could definitely deserve to move down, as it's only (real) purpose in standard is to use Sticky Web. I think that Diggersby could deserve to move up to Standard, as it's basically a faster, slightly stronger, but less defensive Azumarill. It has stronger stab moves than Azumarill (Return + Earthquake compared to Aqua Tail + Play Rough), it has a Stab priority move like Azumarill (Quick Attack), it has U-Turn which is helpful for certain sets, and it gained quite a bit of new moves due to the ORAS move tutors (elemental punches, Gunk Shot, Superpower). I'm not sure about the rest; I would have to look at them further before I make a solid opinion of where they should be.

_________________
In Memory of my fallen CAPs:

  Halloof         Globolt
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MKSLAYER97
Creative
Creative


Posts : 49
Rep : 8
Join date : 2012-11-09

PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   Wed May 27, 2015 10:23 pm

Oh, and also, on a related note, what the hell is Crawdaunt doing in Inspired? That thing should at least be in Creative, and with its power, I'd honestly prefer Standard.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Tier Discussion Thread   

Back to top Go down
 
Tier Discussion Thread
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
 Similar topics
-
» Wrestling Discussion Thread
» Discussion: Shion Uzuki
» Conan Exiles - Official Discussion Thread
» ISCC Meeting 3 - Discussion Thread - Suzuka
» Stock Car Meeting 8 Discussion Thread – Sunset (Speedway Reverse)

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Breakdown :: Community :: Tiers-
Jump to: